[daniel1212]

1) It is wrong to paint Hitler as a Catholic. Though he was baptized, he excommunicated himself, latae sententiae, when he sought, in his words, to “crush [the Catholic Church] like a toad.”

That argument simply makes it worse. As with liberal RCs today, it is how Rome acts that interprets her words, and treating them as members in life and in death, such as Teddy K., interprets canon law though that that is supposed to preclude such "notorious sinners" from being given ecclesiastical funerals, which even Chavez was given. And please spare the unsubstantiated excuse, "he must have repented."

If Hitler was to be considered excommunicated, it should have been manifestly done, and all Catholics forbidden to have fellowship with him, (1Cor. 5:11-13) like as Paul named names of those who were handed over to the devil due to their sins. (1Tim. 2:10)

[metmom]

That argument simply makes it worse. As with liberal RCs today, it is how Rome acts that interprets her words, and treating them as members in life and in death, such as Teddy K., interprets canon law though that that is supposed to preclude such "notorious sinners" from being given ecclesiastical funerals, which even Chavez was given. And please spare the unsubstantiated excuse, "he must have repented."

If Hitler was to be considered excommunicated, it should have been manifestly done, and all Catholics forbidden to have fellowship with him, (1Cor. 5:11-13) like as Paul named names of those who were handed over to the devil due to their sins. (1Tim. 2:10)

I just want to gag every time I hear those pathetic excuses for for the wishy-washy inaction by the Catholic church in regards to following what it claims are its own guidelines.

All it is, is excuse making to avoid having to admit that the RCC can do or ever did anything wrong.

Non-Catholics are regularly and constantly castigated for their lack of moral stand on certain issues, but when it's the Catholic church, excuses abound.

While I have seen Evangelical churches actually remove people from their membership roles for unethical business practices and adultery, the Catholic church gives them Catholic funerals in violation of their own rules, and grant annulments to those who commit adultery and want to divorce their spouses, like said Teddy Kennedy.

[Elsie]

Keep blasting these Catholics!

Perhaps you’ll overlook US!!

—MormonDude( http://io9.com/5962336/the-time-mormons-baptized-adolf-hitler-and-vlad-the-impaler )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

http://saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/mormonism/adolph-hitler-and-mormonism

[Elsie]

Nazi Germany   (http://www.mormonthink.com/QUOTES/nazi.htm)

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"Hitler enjoyed at least as much popularity among German Saints as he did among the population in general. His apparent dynamism and self-confidence seemed to show a way out of the chaos and weakness of the Weimar years. Moreover, as ‘good Germans,' the Mormons were acutely aware that Hitler had risen to power through legal channels... Some Church members even saw Hitler as God’s instrument, preparing the world for the millennium. Superficial parallels were drawn between the Church and the Nazi party with its emphasis on active involvement by every member... The vital importance of ‘Aryan’ ancestry gave new significance to genealogical research. And the Fuhrer himself, the non-smoking, non-drinking vegetarian who yielded to no one in his desire for absolute law and order, seemed to embody many of the most basic LDS virtues."

 

"... [S]ympathy [for some of the Nazi goals] was apparently shared by some members of the [Mormon] Church leadership. The Church's German magazine, Der Stern, reminded its readers in 1935 that Senator Reed Smoot had long been a friend of Germany, and this attitude seemed to receive official sanction during President Grant's 1937 visit. The message to the German Saints was clear: Stay here. Keep the Commandments. Try to get along the best you can, even under some limitations. We want to keep the Church intact and the missionaries working.”

"The German Saints were not eager for a confrontation with their national government and they were happy to follow President Grant's advice. By and large, the Mormons and the Nazis coexisted comfortably."

"In their eagerness to coexist with the [Nazi] government, American officials of the German Church resorted to public relation efforts . . . Probably the clearest example of this tendency is an article by West German Mission President Alfred C. Rees entitled 'In the Land of the Mormons.' The article appeared in a special issue of the Nazi Party organ Der Volkische Beobachter dated April 14 1937. In the Editor's Preface to the article, President Rees is called 'the representative of the Church in Germany,' who 'paints for our readers a portrait of Mormonism today, a church which views the New Germany with sympathy and friendship.' Whether President Rees originally wrote the article in German or not, the language of the piece abounds in such loaded terms as Volk and Rasse (race), and a picture of Brigham Young bears the caption, 'Fuhrer der historischen Mormonenpioniere.' But the significance of these linguistic gaffes is magnified by hindsight. More disturbing is the way President Rees blatantly parallels Mormonism with Nazism. As Rees warms to his topic, Mormonism begins to sound like a fulfillment of Nazi teachings, providing 'the practical realization of the German ideal: "the common good takes precedence over the individual good."' Rees concluded by assuring his readers that 'Mormons are people who put this healthy doctrine into action.' Reading articles such as this, it would have been easy for a German Saint to mistakenly conclude that the seal of official Church approval had been placed on the Nazi regime."

"[The Mormon] policy of appeasing the Nazis worked well until the war broke out. Despite the classification of Mormonism as a sect 'dangerous to the state…' according to Gestapo reports, the Church was not summarily dissolved as many others were. The missionaries remained; the Church continued. Even during the war, Mormon life was disrupted more by bombing raids, supply shortages, and travel restrictions than by official harassment. By and large, the German Saints lived through the Thousand-Year Reich much like the rest of their countrymen."

"Some Church members even saw Hitler as God's instrument, preparing the world for the millennium."

"Superficial parallels were drawn between the Church and the Nazi Party, with its emphasis on active involvement by every member. The women's auxiliary of the Party and the Hitler Youth were regarded by some as secular equivalents to the Church's Relief Society, MIA, and the Scouting programs."

"The vital importance of ‘Aryan' ancestry gave new significance to genealogical research."

 
"... [T]he Fuhrer himself, the non-smoking, non-drinking vegetarian who yielded to no one in his desire for absolute law and order, seemed to embody many of the most basic LDS virtues."

The above are quoted from:     Alan F. Keele and Douglas F. Tobler, “The Fuhrer’s New Clothes: Helmuth Huebner and the Mormons in the Third Reich,” Sunstone, v. 5, no. 6, pp. 20-29

 

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“If the Deseret News is careful not to offend [Nazi] Germany, and I gather … that it is falling backwards on the attempt, it is my guess that first of all the Church is afraid of complete banishment.”

-    Fawn M. Brodie to Dean Brimhall, June 14, 1939, Brimhall Papers, Special Collections, Marriott Library

[wmfights]

That argument simply makes it worse. As with liberal RCs today, it is how Rome acts that interprets her words, and treating them as members in life and in death, such as Teddy K., interprets canon law though that that is supposed to preclude such "notorious sinners" from being given ecclesiastical funerals, which even Chavez was given. And please spare the unsubstantiated excuse, "he must have repented."

You are making a great point that seems to always be ignored. The RCC is a politically driven entity. It does all kinds of hypocritical things because it always wants to maintain its image as "the official" Christian church as well as maintaining access to the highest levels of government. We see this play out with questionable membership numbers that serve to inflate its size and thus influence. However those numbers really don't mean a lot if members are excommunicating themselves without even knowing it.

In both instances you note we see how the political plays a paramount role. Obviously with Hitler he's not a member and with Kennedy a politician in good standing with the media he is a member. In Kennedy's case having a high profile funeral serves to promote the "official" Christian church image. The uninformed don't think of these things, rather they are influenced by image.

The point to be learned isn't how to "pick on the RCC" but why Evangelical Christians should never trust it as an ally. The RCC will do whatever it needs to maintain its perceived status and power, hypocrisy be damned. It seems pretty obvious to me that the war on Christianity is heating up with SSAD (same sex attraction disorder) Marriage the latest tool to ultimately bring churches under state control. As this happens we will be worshiping in house churches just as our Brothers and Sisters in Christ are doing now in closed countries. I expect the RCC will find some accommodation with the state so they don't have to.

[RobbyS]

Catholics don’t read people out of the Church. Hitler was a non-practicing Catholic, and never attended mass. He was not thought to be actively hostile, like many high Nazis, taking a kind of above it all stance. But the pope knew about him having served as nuncio in Germany for many years, knew him to be a dangerous man. The German Empire had been hostile to the Church since 1870, and while it had come to terms, with them, Catholics remained a minority inside of Germany, with the Center Party serving as its political voice, serving as a partner with the Social Democrats in Weimar Governments.