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Finally, A Logical Explanation for ‘Once Saved, Always Saved’
The Christian Diarist ^ | June 16, 2013 | JP

Posted on 06/16/2013 6:39:19 AM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST

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To: Iscool

your salvation can’t be taken away by anyone, but YOU can walk away from it and reject it. we still have free will. the atheist guy on this thread did exactly that.


51 posted on 06/16/2013 9:15:32 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Jonty30
I don’t believe in once saved, always saved. My understanding of grace is that there is no sin that you cannot repent from and be forgiven for, but you still must turn from sin.

If one was capable of "turning from sin" then Christ died for no good reason. I go by the belief that the only unpardonable sin is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and I also believe that if one has been saved, they will be unable to do so just as Satan (and his minions) are unable to proclaim Jesus as Lord of, and Savior to, all.

Perhaps you recall Paul's lament about how, despite his faith and knowledge, he constantly found himself "doing that which he would not do, and not doing that which he would do."

Those that claim to totally move away from sin are either fooling themselves or acting as the hypocrites that Jesus claimed the Pharisees were with their publicly pious stage shows.

52 posted on 06/16/2013 9:17:38 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Repentence and conversion is a day in, day out effort.


53 posted on 06/16/2013 9:35:42 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

It’s pretty clear - do the will of the Father.


54 posted on 06/16/2013 9:44:41 AM PDT by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
Indeed, there will be among the saved that inhabit the new earth fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, the avaricious, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers who did little to nothing in their lives to honor and glorify God.

Uhhh. OK, what about scripture that tells us explicitly that such won't inherit?

The Calvinist/Reformed doctrine called "Perseverance of the Saints" doesn't work the same way as OSAS.

55 posted on 06/16/2013 9:58:04 AM PDT by Lee N. Field ("You keep using that verse, but I do not think it means what you think it means." --I. Montoya)
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To: Stingray
Once saved always saved is another of those doctrines that comes from a completely wrong understanding of eschatology, as demonstrated by the pastor’s use of the parable of the talents and Revelation.

Not knowing Rev. Laurie specifically, I'm going to gess Dispensationalist, probably.

Bad eschatology has consequences.

56 posted on 06/16/2013 10:22:14 AM PDT by Lee N. Field ("You keep using that verse, but I do not think it means what you think it means." --I. Montoya)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

So exactly what in Pastor Greg’s explanation made sense?


57 posted on 06/16/2013 10:24:05 AM PDT by piusv
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Interpretations. Everybody has one.

Does all this mean that Elvis Priestley is in the heavenly band.


58 posted on 06/16/2013 10:27:46 AM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: Vanders9

Faith is better used as a verb, as in to faithe. That makes the faith in Christ an action word and an ongoing act. If God has all of time as a volume before Him, He knows who professed in Christ, who faithed in Christ’s salvation, faithing in God’s saving Grace. (I have a little essay regarding this on my profile page, for anyone interested in more.)


59 posted on 06/16/2013 10:38:21 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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“A Word study regarding salvation” ... it was originally offered on a Mormonism discussion thread, in response to the LDS notion of ‘salvation after all that you can do’.


60 posted on 06/16/2013 10:40:33 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Viennacon

Yep!!


61 posted on 06/16/2013 10:47:55 AM PDT by Politicalmom (Liberalism. Ideas so great they have to be mandatory.-FReeper Osage Orange)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

Positively false on all accounts: “you shall know them by their fruit.” No, sorry, there is no once saved, always saved. It is either a true salvation by divine grace, or there is no salvation. Period.


62 posted on 06/16/2013 10:58:49 AM PDT by vpintheak (We are the chosen few! Be thankful for it!)
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To: Lee N. Field

“Bad eschatology has consequences.”

Indeed.


63 posted on 06/16/2013 11:01:12 AM PDT by Stingray (Stand for the truth or you'll fall for anything.)
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To: Mercat

See, I read it twice and I still don’t see it sounding like Purgatory.


64 posted on 06/16/2013 11:18:12 AM PDT by piusv
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
.

The timing of this article is interesting.

As an evangelical Christian I was raised (primarily in the Baptist church) to believe that "once saved always saved".

A pretty good knowledge of the scriptures shows me that one can argue the question either way.

Bluntly, from a "marketing perspective", the "once saved always saved" position is a much easier "sell" than the alternative.

Recently, a good (non-clergy) friend of mine gave me a ten-page study that he'd done himself on this question.

I can send it to you if I'm contacted through Free Republic's private mail system.

"Truth" can sometimes be elusive.



.
65 posted on 06/16/2013 11:29:32 AM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Swine Piss be upon Obama, and his Child-Rapist False Prophet Mohammed)
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To: Lee N. Field
Bad eschatology has consequences.

Friends don't let friends get Left Behind :)

66 posted on 06/16/2013 11:29:58 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
.

The timing of this article is interesting.

As an evangelical Christian I was raised (primarily in the Baptist church) to believe that "once saved always saved".

A pretty good knowledge of the scriptures shows me that one can argue the question either way.

Bluntly, from a "marketing perspective", the "once saved always saved" position is a much easier "sell" than the alternative.

Recently, a good (non-clergy) friend of mine gave me a ten-page study that he'd done himself on this question.

I can send it to you if I'm contacted through Free Republic's private mail system.

"Truth" can sometimes be elusive.



.
67 posted on 06/16/2013 11:30:42 AM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Swine Piss be upon Obama, and his Child-Rapist False Prophet Mohammed)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
"Cheap grace is the grace we bestow on ourselves. Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession.... Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate.” ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost Of Discipleship
68 posted on 06/16/2013 11:38:48 AM PDT by windsorknot
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST
Matthew 7

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

No one can pluck the saved from Almighty God's hand. And no one can save the unsaved from multiple self-deceptions including that they are saved because they insincerely uttered the sinners prayer, pastored a megachurch, or even offered their body to be burned but had not love.

69 posted on 06/16/2013 11:57:19 AM PDT by Theophilus (Not merely prolife, but prolific)
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To: Mark17

So according to this pastor the saved Fornicators get to go to heaven where they get to continue to fornicate. That makes sense. I also love the Evangelical notion that after one dies, there is no more growth from a spiritual or emotional standpoint.


70 posted on 06/16/2013 12:07:27 PM PDT by Treeless Branch
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST; boatbums; CynicalBear; caww; smvoice; daniel1212
It's not about *logic*.

It's about the promises of God to the believer.

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 10:25-30 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

Ephesians 1:13-14 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 21 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:4-8 4 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.6 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, 7 for we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

71 posted on 06/16/2013 12:39:02 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: windsorknot

Great words from a great martyr.thanks for sharing.


72 posted on 06/16/2013 12:46:19 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

HEY! How are you doing?

Good to see you back!


73 posted on 06/16/2013 12:47:02 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Secret Agent Man; Iscool
your salvation can’t be taken away by anyone, but YOU can walk away from it and reject it. we still have free will. the atheist guy on this thread did exactly that.

That is presuming the guy was correct about being saved and was actually saved in the first place.

74 posted on 06/16/2013 12:48:30 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Treeless Branch
So according to this pastor the saved Fornicators get to go to heaven where they get to continue to fornicate. That makes sense. I also love the Evangelical notion that after one dies, there is no more growth from a spiritual or emotional standpoint.

That's a new accusation against Evangelicalism for me. Where'd you hear that one?

75 posted on 06/16/2013 12:51:43 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

Of course, but if he said the words and at that time believed, why would he not believe he wasn’t saved? That is us taking God at His Word. That is faith.


76 posted on 06/16/2013 12:54:25 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man
Saying the words is not an incantation. If someone doesn't mean it, then it doesn't do any good. God sees the heart, not the outward appearance.

We are commanded to repent and confess. It's a change of heart. We are new creatures in Christ, not just cleaned up old ones.

When we are saved we are crucified with Christ and made new creatures, the old has gone and the new has come. If the flesh has been crucified with Christ, how can one not be saved?

77 posted on 06/16/2013 1:05:46 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

I agree. I never said they were an incantation and why you got that impression is strange as I never said that or even implied that. You might want to go back are read exactly what I wrote.


78 posted on 06/16/2013 1:10:01 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Iscool

Such as?


79 posted on 06/16/2013 1:13:45 PM PDT by savedbygrace (But God.)
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To: Secret Agent Man; Iscool
>> but YOU can walk away from it and reject it<<

So you say that a person can thwart God’s plan or “reject it” regardless of what He says?

John 10: 25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

80 posted on 06/16/2013 1:31:44 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: metmom

Evidently some think they are more powerful than God?


81 posted on 06/16/2013 1:33:40 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

The relationship we have with God requires both God and us. God reaches down to us to save us and in return we begin the process of conforming ourselves to His will. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and in truth, none of us are in any position to question how God measures out His grace to us.

That said, if Greg Lauire is teaching this in his church, I think he is dangerously close to teaching a false doctrine to his followers.


82 posted on 06/16/2013 1:46:06 PM PDT by CityCenter (Pleading the 5th is just so 1972.)
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To: metmom
HEY! How are you doing?

Good to see you back!

MM

I'm slowly healing with the Grace of G-d. Blessings !

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
83 posted on 06/16/2013 1:46:34 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: CynicalBear

Look at the context of the sentence.

He is discussing believers. They are a separate group from those who would take them away - this other group He refers to are the “no one’s”.

What He is saying is that if you are a believer there is nobody else who has the ability to make you give up your faith. He doesn’t say that it is impossible for YOU to reject your faith. However He does make the promise elsewhere that if you are His He will finish the good work He started in you.

As we have free will still, we are still able to turn our own backs on God if we become lax and grow further and further distant from Him. It’s not Him taking it away from us, it would be that own person’s decision to say No.

Why on earth they would ever do so is beyond me. But we have seen great people who started out strong, were by all accounts faithful, some even great preachers, by their own words bringing others to Christ, only to later in life fall away.

I just take God at His Word and that He has my back, He wants me with Him, He’s looking out for me, wants the best for me, and will complete the good work in me, despite me, for the sake of what Jesus went through for me and everyone else.

Now if you are a believer and you stop believing, for any number of possibilities, you don’t believe that God has your back, you may stop believing in all of it. People have free will and in this life God does not make it impossible for you to reject Him, before or after you are saved, He doesn’t alter your free will so that it is impossible once saved, to not say no to Him. Mature belivers would find such an act crazy to even think about doing, but it isn’t out of the realm of possibility.


84 posted on 06/16/2013 1:47:46 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Sorry. It’s just that so many people think that merely saying the words is enough. If you don’t mean it, it’s not going to do any good.


85 posted on 06/16/2013 2:02:40 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

I read somewhere this statement .
“ to know the Bible is one thing, to know the author is another thing all together.”
I don’t know who God saves. I don’t know who is saved but for my own self. I have trusted in the shed blood of Christ as an atonement for my sins. We should each know with out doubt if we have the salvation offered for the sins of the world. Our relationship with Him is important in knowing our salvation.


86 posted on 06/16/2013 2:18:35 PM PDT by Ramonne
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To: Secret Agent Man

Keep in mind that “free will” concept also includes the idea that man is responsible for his salvation. He can then take credit for being one of the saved. A dangerous road to walk.


87 posted on 06/16/2013 3:22:23 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: metmom
That makes sense. I also love the Evangelical notion that after one dies, there is no more growth from a spiritual or emotional standpoint. --Treeless Branch

That's a new accusation against Evangelicalism for me. Where'd you hear that one? --metmom

I have heard that (or something like that) -- that, where you are when you die, is where you stay. And I think "wow, I certainly hope not." I have no idea how that is justified.

88 posted on 06/16/2013 3:23:00 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("You keep using that verse, but I do not think it means what you think it means." --I. Montoya)
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To: CHRISTIAN DIARIST

I hate to ask, and no offense)but how have you managed to miss this before? My churches (I am Southern Baptist)Have all taught that.


89 posted on 06/16/2013 3:56:55 PM PDT by chesley (Vast deserts of political ignorance makes liberalism possible - James Lewis)
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To: metmom; Secret Agent Man
your salvation can’t be taken away by anyone, but YOU can walk away from it and reject it. we still have free will. the atheist guy on this thread did exactly that.

That is presuming the guy was correct about being saved and was actually saved in the first place.

I have been backslidden at least for one period of time...God may deal with that fella as he did with me...In which case, he'll be back...

It's easy actually, to, just for a moment, convince yourself that God doesn't exist...But if one knows a little bit of bible prophecy, he can't look at the world right now and honestly say God does not exist...

I don't put much stock into what so called atheists claim...If a Christian does turn from God, just as the prodigal son did, God may beat him and whip him into submission, all the way HOME...

90 posted on 06/16/2013 4:06:07 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: savedbygrace
Such as?

I'm not going to do a bible study for you...If you don't know by now, you're not even qualified to be in a bible discussion...

But to give you a hint; those are the verses that hundreds of millions of Protestants of the Reformation have clung to for Centuries now...Surely you can find those...

91 posted on 06/16/2013 4:10:18 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: CityCenter
That said, if Greg Lauire is teaching this in his church, I think he is dangerously close to teaching a false doctrine to his followers.

And your opinion is basesd on what??? Does Greg Lauire have scripture to back up his belief??? Do you have scripture to back up your belief???

92 posted on 06/16/2013 4:13:16 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: CynicalBear

no. it doesn’t mean that.

free will simply means the ability to say yes or no without God making either choice impossible for you to accept or reject, as if He did that, you would not be making a 100% choice on your own.

all saved christians realize they are not saved by anything they do or not do. it all is because of Christ’s work.


93 posted on 06/16/2013 4:38:45 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Viennacon

I don’t know of one believer who has never sinned after initial salvation. If they had, there would be no need for 1st John 1:9.


94 posted on 06/16/2013 4:45:51 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Iscool

Every time a person disobeys legitimate authority, they sin, ergo they turn away from God and His Plan.

That also means that when God allows a Satanist to be placed in political office as a leader of a nation, we are to obey through faith in Christ.

Part of this reason is that we are engaged in spiritual warfare and our allegiance is to God through faith in Christ. We bare our Cross daily in these times, not by living to perform good or avoid evil, but by living through faith in Him.


95 posted on 06/16/2013 4:53:48 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Salvation

Everyone seems to forget this verse. When you think you can commit a purposeful sin and still be saved. As one Baptist boy said about sinning...”It’s OK. Once saved always saved!”

2Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?


96 posted on 06/16/2013 5:28:28 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: rephope

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.


97 posted on 06/16/2013 5:32:15 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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It’s funny how many people seem to worship the concept of free will, insisting that God wants men to choose him willingly. This in spite of the fact that God COMMANDS men to love Him. According to Jesus (Matthew 22:36-40) the greatest commandment is that we love God with all of our heart, with all our soul and all our mind. This isn’t a request, or a suggestion; it’s a command.

God commands everyone to love Him, and He promises destruction for those who do not. And yet man deludes himself into thinking that God bows to the “free will” of man? How absurd.


98 posted on 06/16/2013 5:34:11 PM PDT by paulist ("there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus")
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To: Jonty30

***You’d have to show me from the Bible that suicide is an unforgiveable act.***

Eusebius tells of some Christians who broke from their Roman guards and threw themselves into the river to drown rather than go to what the Romans had in store for them.


99 posted on 06/16/2013 5:35:44 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Iscool

So far, nobody has been able to find them. If you have, please enlighten us.


100 posted on 06/16/2013 5:45:24 PM PDT by savedbygrace (But God.)
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