Posted on 07/29/2013 8:12:44 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
Are you a follower of Pope Benedict or Pope Francis and Pope John Paul II? (Hint:You can’t do all at once!)
Pope John Paul II heaped praises upon Father Marcial Maciel, despite warnings about the degenerate.
Pope Benedict properly declared Maciel to be “untouchable”.
Yet, Pope Francis appoints a flaming homosexual to run the Vatican bank. Pope Francis says, “Who am I to judge judge them (homosexuals)”. How in the world can this man hear confessions, if he can’t judge them?
How many times did Benedict XVI refer to himself, specifically, as the Vicar of Christ? In other words, how many times did he say:
Answer: zero. (He referred to the occupant of the position, generically, as the Vicar of Christ...but there are no citations of him calling himself, personally, that title)
Actually, I'm a follower of Christ.
Exactly what part of "Summorum Pontificum" do you and you're "religious orders" not understand?
We order that everything We have established with these Apostolic Letters issued as Motu Proprio be considered as "established and decreed", and to be observed from 14 September of this year, Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross, whatever there may be to the contrary.
From Rome, at St. Peter's, 7 July 2007, third year of Our Pontificate.
Pope Benedict XVI
So says Desmond Tutu and Nancy Pelosi.
“Actually, I’m a follower of Christ.”
So you reject his Popes?
Silly post.
Sorry, Brian, I don't see it that way. We're dealing with a religious order here, not multiple religious orders, not secular clergy...one religious order. Obedience to their superiors is first and foremost the key there.
Remember, from Summorum Pontificum:
Art. 3. Communities of Institutes of consecrated life and of Societies of apostolic life, of either pontifical or diocesan right, wishing to celebrate Mass in accordance with the edition of the Roman Missal promulgated in 1962, for conventual or "community" celebration in their oratories, may do so. If an individual community or an entire Institute or Society wishes to undertake such celebrations often, habitually or permanently, the decision must be taken by the Superiors Major, in accordance with the law and following their own specific decrees and statues.
I don't really see the great, huge controversy.
Thanks, I hope and pray you are right.
The problem is that “Modernism” is a heresy. It was defined in 1907 by Pope St. Pius X in his encyclical “Pascendi Dominici Gregis.” The short definition of this heresy is that one can believe anything one wants, because who knows what Truth is, anyway?
It is impossible to believe 2 contradictory things at the same time. Either the Church teaches the Truth, or it is full of errors and heresy. I believe our Church is in the greatest crisis since the heresy of Arianism.
We need some bishops to stand up and proclaim the Truth, like St. Athanasius did.
Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us!
I'm also concerned about the vocations to the FI's now, as many of the brothers are also attached to this liturgy. On both counts, this doesn't seem to be very helpful from a pastoral perspective.
Brian, you have better connections than I do. Perhaps you could locate a copy of the Apostolic Visitor's report. There is likely something more going on than meets the eye.
You might be right...but I personally see a whole lot of smoke and very little fire here.
Remember, both Sandro and Andrea are Italian and they write that way.
Take it easy.
Hey n00b, just a suggestion from somebody who’s been around here a little bit longer than you...you might want to take some Kaopectate for that diarrhea of the keyboard you’re having. You’re not going to win any fans here. Just a friendly suggestion.
I actually agree...but I am more concerned that modernist diocesan bishops who haven't yet succumbed to the "chronological solution" (shall we say delicately) may use this as an excuse to unjustly place restrictions on clergy in their dioceses.
But jubilation on the part of the modernists or needless, inappropriate apocalyptic visions of doom on the part of the orthodox do nothing to help.
Well, you yourself are using hyperbole toward the end of that. I don't see criticism as needless, either, because every avalanche starts with a single snowflake on a slippery slope. We would be negligent to not point out incremental movements in an undesirable direction.
And that's fine...be cautious. But being cautious is not the same as having visions of doom.
Incorrect. There were a variety of official "Latin Masses" around prior to the time of the Council of Trent, and they existed in MANY different forms and variations, ALL of which were in use in the Catholic Church. Some of the pre-1570 Latin masses that the Catholic Church used, such as the Milanese and Mozarabic liturgies (which began in the 7th century), were in no way related to what became the Tridentine Mass and only had a vaguely similar structure.
The "standard" Roman rite Mass introduced by Pope Gregory had MANY additions and variations introduced over the next several hundred years, and didn't become the dominant liturgy in the Catholic Church until the 1300s. The Gallican Rite was certainly more "ancient" and widely in use in the Catholic Church, but it was gradually replaced with Roman rites and died out in the middle ages. The Roman rite continued to undergo many changes after that time: there were at least 14 different variations of the "standard" Roman Missal printed between 1474 until 1570. The Roman Missal also didn't become obligatory for all Roman Catholic parishes until the Council of Trent, and many Catholic parishes continued to use, other, unrelated Latin masses prior to that time.
A good case can be made that that the Syrian rites are more "ancient". That type of liturgy was introduced prior to the Council of Chalcedon in 450 AD and has remained relatively unchanged for hundreds of years, and is still in use today in some Catholic Churches such as the Maronite Church. They also commonly use Aramaic as the liturgical language, and Aramaic and Greek predate the Latin language as the standard language for liturgical celebrations. Every historian will tell you that the East Syrian liturgy is certainly much older than ANY type of Latin mass.
“You’re not going to win any fans here. “
Not looking for any from your ilk, Bub.
“he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.”
I had a weird insulting dialogue with ebbtide a couple of days ago.
My advise steer clear of this insulting kid who has a problem with his internet usage.
I fear we are back to the bad old days where pastoral concern is only extended in the modernist direction.
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