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Substitutionary atonement debate sparked by editorial on 'In Christ Alone' lyrics
Baptist Press ^ | Aug 12, 2013 | Erin Roach

Posted on 08/12/2013 3:23:20 PM PDT by Graybeard58

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1 posted on 08/12/2013 3:23:20 PM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: WKB

Ping.


2 posted on 08/12/2013 3:23:52 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (_.. ._. .. _. _._ __ ___ ._. . ___ ..._ ._ ._.. _ .. _. .)
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To: Graybeard58

I wonder if this revisionist pagan (yes, that is really what he is) also wants to excise every “objectionable” portion concerning God’s wrath out of his Word as well.


3 posted on 08/12/2013 3:34:01 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Graybeard58

If there was no wrath of God, there would be no need for a Saviour. Man, do people ever read the Scripture anymore?

That lyric is biblical.


4 posted on 08/12/2013 3:49:22 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: Graybeard58

Isaiah 53:10

5 posted on 08/12/2013 3:53:06 PM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Graybeard58

True Christianity preaches the cross of Christ.

6 posted on 08/12/2013 3:54:09 PM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

No, no, no, Santa God would never stand up to us.


7 posted on 08/12/2013 3:54:43 PM PDT by AppyPappy (Obama: What did I not know and when did I not know it?)
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To: Graybeard58
I do not sing the phrase "the wrath of God is satisfied."

It's a safe bet that he's not a fan of the gospel song "Minuit, Chrétiens" (Christians, it's midnight), better known in the English-speaking world as "O Holy Night." The original version states that God came to Earth in the form of a man "to erase original sin and to stop the wrath of his father," a concept absent from the English version.

8 posted on 08/12/2013 4:07:30 PM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: Graybeard58
"Till on that cross as Jesus died/The wrath of God was satisfied."

While the lyrics make for a good song, they are not doctrinally correct...God's wrath is visible all thruout the Old Testament...And it did not end with the Crucifixion of Jesus...There's still more wrath to come...

But those who know that should have no problem singing such a beautiful, albeit slightly inaccurate song...

9 posted on 08/12/2013 4:26:13 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Graybeard58

Dear Bob,

Consider, therefore, the kindness and the sternness of God.

sincerely,
Paul, an apostle


10 posted on 08/12/2013 4:27:14 PM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: fishtank

Good verse.

IMHO, I would probably try to communicate with those who fail to understand propitiation and atonement by going back over the elements of the Tabernacle and the protocol by which man was able to have fellowship with God.

The Cross was focused upon Judgment.

The Arc of the Covenant had the Mercy Seat upon it. The Mercy Seat had two Cherubim facing one another, representing God’s Perfect Holiness.

His Holiness is comprised of His Perfect Righteousness and His Perfect Justice. One Cherub represented His Perfect Justice. The other represented His Perfect Righteousness.

They would keep each other in check.

Whenever something was placed on the Mercy Seat, which was unrighteous, His Perfect Righteousness demanded Perfect Justice, hence a Perfect Judgment of that before them. In turn, His Perfect Justice demanded a Righteousness Judgment of that laid before them, by Perfect Righteousness.

God’s Integrity demands Judgment of those in His presence and their righteousness.

Without the judgment, there is no integrity in His Holiness.

Our sins have been judged when they were imputed to Jesus Christ and He was judged. Through faith in Christ in what He provided on the Cross in that judgment, we are able to confess our sins, and now God is able to Justly and Righteously forgive us of those sins.

Forgiveness comes after the Cross, but only possible for all mankind by a Holy God at the Perfect Judgment on the Cross. His blood propitiated the wrath of God on the sins of mankind.


11 posted on 08/12/2013 4:27:47 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Graybeard58
That is not how I understand the Bible...

That's because he doesn't understand the bible. I wonder if he's Rob Bell fan.

12 posted on 08/12/2013 4:40:48 PM PDT by tbpiper
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To: Iscool
not doctrinally correct

It is when you consider the context of the song.

13 posted on 08/12/2013 4:43:56 PM PDT by tbpiper
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To: Graybeard58
the controversy could relate to "different meanings of the word 'wrath.'"

I wonder if he also has that Clintonian confusion on the meaning of the word "is".

14 posted on 08/12/2013 4:46:54 PM PDT by tbpiper
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To: Iscool

I think in context of this song the lyric IS correct; until one is born again and receives the sacrifice of Jesus blood, and resurrection they are under God’s wrath personally, so in context as in individually to the person yes this line is CORRECT. If you take it to mean universally God’s wrath then it is not correct-but I don’t believe that is what the authors of the song meant (however I don’t know them personally so I cannot ask)!


15 posted on 08/12/2013 4:54:58 PM PDT by JSDude1 (Is John Boehner the Neville Chamberlain of American Politics?)
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To: Graybeard58; GiovannaNicoletta; F15Eagle; .45 Long Colt; Buddygirl; Former Fetus; Bockscar; JLLH; ..

ping


16 posted on 08/12/2013 5:05:30 PM PDT by WKB
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To: Iscool

I love this song- when it comes on the radio, I get goosebumps and tears in my eyes...just so moving, spiritually for me.


17 posted on 08/12/2013 5:31:04 PM PDT by Engedi
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To: JSDude1; Iscool

The song is sung from the perspective of a born-again believer: “MY hope is found.....etc...” For the believer, there is no wrath to come. It was dealt with and finished upon the cross. So said Christ and so it is. Amen and amen.


18 posted on 08/12/2013 6:10:22 PM PDT by JLLH
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To: Graybeard58

The Bible would be a very short book if you exclude all of the passages that speak to God’s wrath against sinners. What would be left - Song of Solomon?


19 posted on 08/12/2013 6:27:22 PM PDT by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Still bitterly clinging to rational thought despite it's unfashionability)
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To: Iscool
While the lyrics make for a good song, they are not doctrinally correct...

With respect to the sins of justified sinners, those lyrics are nothing but doctrinally correct.

20 posted on 08/12/2013 6:45:07 PM PDT by RansomOttawa (tm)
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