To: Elsie; vladimir998
"Why would you reject Gods loving gift?""It ain't a 'gift' if you have to do SOMETHING to get it."
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Are you serious? Consider the following scenario:
1. Ann is slowly dying from kidney failure.
2. John offers to donate one of his kidneys to Ann to save her life.
3. In order to receive John's kidney, Ann and/or John have to do the following:
- Contact the organ donor agency, and discuss the situation with them.
- Contact her medical insurance company to arrange appropriate coverage.
- Make a series of visits to the surgeons and other doctors for a number of consultations and examinations.
- Take a number of compatibility and other kinds of tests, and arrange for a number of those kinds of tests for John the donor also.
- Help arrange John's hospital stay and kidney donation surgery.
- Arrange her own hospital stay and kidney reception surgery (making sure both John's surgery and her own surgery, and other related factors, are properly timed and coordinated).
- Arrange transportation for both herself and John to the hospital(s).
- Her and John must then actually go to the hospital(s).
- John and Ann then both undergo surgery.
- John and Ann then both undergo surgical post-op recovery and extended recooperation.
- Ann makes all necessary co-payments, and sees that all other related surgical, medical, and drug fees are properly made and applied.
- Ann and John then continue to regularly take all medications prescribed for post-surgery recovery assistance.
- Ann and John both have to return a number of times for post-operative medical evaluations/tests/checkups.
- etc.
- etc.
- etc.
Are you seriously saying that in your personal view of things, that unbelievably special life-giving/life-saving gift that John made to Ann (one of his own kidneys) is somehow NOT REALLY A GIFT, just because Ann had to do a number of other things in order to be able to receive that life-saving kidney donation from John?
401 posted on
09/05/2013 2:27:06 PM PDT by
Heart-Rest
(Good reading ==> | ncregister.com | catholic.com | ewtn.com | newadvent.org |)
To: Heart-Rest
Are you seriously saying... that this strawman analogy is a correct view of what's being discussed here?
405 posted on
09/05/2013 3:32:14 PM PDT by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: Heart-Rest; Elsie; vladimir998
Are you seriously saying that in your personal view of things, that unbelievably special life-giving/life-saving gift that John made to Ann (one of his own kidneys) is somehow NOT REALLY A GIFT, just because Ann had to do a number of other things in order to be able to receive that life-saving kidney donation from John? Consider the following scenario:
1. Six year old Heart-Rest is anxiously waiting to open all her birthday presents (gifts).
2. Mommy hands her her gaily wrapped gift.
3. Heart-Rest rips the bow and paper off and grabs the baby doll she has ALWAYS wanted.
4. Little HR says, "Thank you Mommy!", and runs off to play with her new doll.
Now, what did HR actually have to DO to get that gift? She was a good little girl, you might say? She was born into that family and was her Mommy's little girl. All she did, had to do, was RECEIVE the gift.
I could come up with some more examples like this if you need them. The point is that God used the term that implied something given that the receiver does not earn, merit or, even, deserve. In fact, we don't get what we REALLY deserve - which is eternal separation from God (the penalty/wages of sin is death). Mercy means we don't get what we DO deserve. GRACE means we get what we don't deserve - the favor of Almighty God, the adoption into the family of God, the indwelling Holy Spirit as the guarantee of our inheritance, the new birth which frees us from the bondage to sin, eternal life with God in heaven. What God says we need to DO is believe, AKA, have faith, receive the gift by faith. He takes it from there and, since we did nothing to earn this gift, our deeds do nothing that lets us KEEP it, either. What would it take for people to get it that grace means grace? How many ways does God have to say it before they will believe Him?
412 posted on
09/06/2013 5:07:16 PM PDT by
boatbums
(God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
To: Heart-Rest; Elsie
Are you seriously saying that in your personal view of things, that unbelievably special life-giving/life-saving gift that John made to Ann (one of his own kidneys) is somehow NOT REALLY A GIFT, just because Ann had to do a number of other things in order to be able to receive that life-saving kidney donation from John? All SHE had to do was say *Yes*.
SHE cannot make arrangements for a kidney transplant on her own. No doctor or no insurance company would go for it.
They make all the arrangements, they do all the work, they pay for it. She just has to show up.
420 posted on
09/08/2013 10:53:28 AM PDT by
metmom
( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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