good one...
Posted on 09/21/2013 3:07:58 PM PDT by NYer
Let’s lighten things up tonight, ping!
Neither the Bible nor Jewish custom of the time had anything at all in them about a celibate marriage. Would have been viewed as weird if not obscene.
The Bible itself also says nothing about the couple having for some obscure reason planned such a "union." In fact, there is nothing at all in the text to indicate they planned anything other than a normal Jewish marriage till first Joseph and then Mary were visited by angelic messengers.
Somebody doesn’t know Jewish history and traditions.
I don’t remember anything in the Bible about them not having a normal marriage.
If they weren’t married by Deacon Wynocki of the 76th Christian Church of Downer’s Creek, TN, then they weren’t married! That’s my position and I’m being sarcastic about it.
GeronL — “What is a normal marriage?” “What is an Abbey Normal Marriage?” The whole world doesn’t care to no. And did the Kellogg family have a cereal marriage?
This guy has too much time on his hands. It’s Saturday night, and this is way above my pay grade.
But more importantly, was Jesus red haired? that is the crucial theological question here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2425154/Ginger-Gene-showed-50k-years-ago-colder-climates-say-scientists.html
I’ll now go quietly crawl back into my man-cave and read military history.
Much of the author’s argument falls apart on the fact that the Gospel writers always refer to them as betrothed, not married.
While betrothal is not exactly the same thing as a modern engagement, the ancients were fully aware that it was something short of full marriage.
It is also relevant that ancient Judaism had nothing parallel to our present marriage ceremony, with public vows and such. The “ceremony” generally consisted of a procession through the streets, with the father of the bride taking her to her husband’s home, and handing her over to him. The essence of the process was the father publicly giving (or selling) the bride to her husband.
This was followed by a celebration at the new husband’s home, like the one at Cana. The wedding was normally consummated that night.
The period between when the father contracted his daughter in marriage and the procession through the streets was referred to as betrothal. Under the Law a betrothed woman was treated in many ways as a married one, for instance with regard to the law on rape, and breaking the betrothal required a divorce.
But there WAS a difference between betrothal and marriage and the Gospel writers presumably were indicating something by making this distinction.
In the Bible.Mary was betrothed, but the marriage was not scheduled to be consummated.Several Biblical passages refer to the negotiations requisite for the arranging of a marriage (Gen. xxiv.; Song of Songs viii. 8; Judges xiv. 2-7), which were conducted by members of the two families involved, or their deputies, and required usually the consent of the prospective bride (if of age); but when the agreement had been entered into, it was definite and binding upon both groom and bride, who were considered as man and wife in all legal and religious aspects, except that of actual cohabitation.
... After the betrothal a period of twelve months was allowed to pass before the marriage was completed by the formal home-taking ("nissu'in," "liḳḳuḥin").
A ginger Jesus?
Yep. They were betrothed, but not yet consummated. Then Mary becomes pregnant, an awkward state to be in prior to your betrothed husband having consummated the marriage.
Well I don’t have a copy of their marriage license but if anyone wants to go down to the court house in the town of Nazareth.......
“Never be afraid of loving the Blessed Virgin too much. You can never love her more than Jesus did” St Maximilian Kolbe, Martyr who also ran a popular magazine focused on improving the culture, we sure could use that!
I think that part of the story has been missed. While in some cultures, an old man marrying a young girl would be ordinary, I suspect that at the time, among Jews, it was thought of as extraordinary.
That is, not frowned upon, but unusual, or done for unusual reasons. In this case, Mary’s parents, Joachim and Anna, were already elderly when she was born, which suggests that they died when she was still at a young age.
Girls in that time were considered as marriageable at the age of 12 years and six months. So even with a vow of chastity, as an orphan she would be more or less “assigned” for marriage to a man, so she would not starve to death, though she could choose from among candidates. And he would know that she had made a vow of chastity.
good one...
I didn’t think the Catholic Church recognizes marriages that aren’t consummated in the usual way. Hence the refusal of paraplegics and others who are impotent from getting married. And it is also a frequent argument against same sex marriage, because in order for a true marriage to take place it must be consummated, or to put it bluntly, a penis must enter a vagina.
After the betrothal a period of twelve months was allowed to pass before the marriage was completed by the formal home-taking (”nissu’in,” “liḳḳuḥin”). __________________________________________________
You sir are correct. When I read the article description of Betrothal=Marriage I quit reading because of the obvious ignorance of the writer. If you don’t even know what betrothal is how can you speak with authority about any other ancient custom.
Matthew 1:25 says “until” .....
24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, 25 but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.
13:55 and Mark 6:3 name four men called Jesus’ brethren: James, Joses (short for Joseph Jr.), Simon, and Judas called Jude. Verse 56 mentions that Jesus had sisters. The sisters are not named, but since the word is plural there were at least two of them. John 7:5 tells us his brothers didn’t believe in Jesus, and all three synoptic gospels tell of a time when his mother and brothers came to speak with Jesus. The implication is that they came to take him home, possibly to rethink his ministry because he was offending the Jewish leaders. That may be why Jesus didn’t go out to talk with them immediately.
Later, 1 Corinthians 15:7 says Jesus made a resurrection appearance to his brother James, which must have converted him. Then, Matthew 28:10 records that the rest of Jesus’ brothers would see him at a resurrection appearance in Galilee. So, Acts 1:14 says Mary and all the brothers were present when the Holy Spirit came upon believers at Pentecost. In Acts 12:17, Dr. Luke wrote that Peter sent word to James and his brothers of his miraculous release from prison. By the middle of the first Christian century James appears to be the leader of the church in Jerusalem (Acts 15:13, Galatians 1:19 and 2:9). He wrote the epistle of James, and his brother Judas wrote the epistle of Jude in the New Testament (James 1:1; Jude 1:1).
Matthew 1:20 and Luke 1:34-35 record that Mary was a virgin and Jesus was fathered by God’s Spirit. God, himself, testified at Jesus’ baptism: “This is my beloved Son!” (Matthew 3:17). John 3:16 identifies Jesus as God’s only begotten son, meaning he was the only son God ever fathered. So, Joseph was not Jesus’ biological father. Matthew 1:25 says Joseph did not have relations with Mary until her first son was born, implying that she had other children. Joseph would have been the father of Mary’s other children. That would make them the half-brothers and sisters of Jesus.
In an effort to keep Mary pure and a perpetual virgin some church dogmas declare that Mary never had any other children. This is not supported by Scripture. Jesus was miraculously born, but he had a normal family with a mother, foster father, half brothers and sisters, aunt Mary and uncle Cleophas (John 19:25), and cousins Elizabeth and her son, John the baptizer (Luke 1:13 and 36).
- Dr. Tom Lovorn i
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