Posted on 10/05/2013 10:09:16 PM PDT by jodyel
Acts 19:1-3
1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism
HMMMmmm...
Looks like they GOT the water...
It’s Scripture. One truth and not multiple interpretations.
Sure there was doubt and debate with the robe wearing, indulgence selling apostates...
1Th 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.
The church right from the get go had the scriptures and they multiplied them and passed them out to the churches world wide...
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
The final decision was made in the fourth century, by the Pope.
Again, the scriptures that came out of Jerusalem, Syria and that region were circulated world wide Centuries before your religion put together the African scriptures that originated in Egypt and long before any 'Catholic' council was ever established...
Just because that's what your religion teaches you to tell people doesn't mean there's an ounce of truth to it...
Jesus is alive in Heaven humbly carrying out Mary's commands...
Hmmm...Sorry...
“...Jesus is alive in Heaven humbly carrying out Mary’s commands...”
No one thinks that. Mary is saved so she is in Heaven with Jesus. She does not carry out his commands and no Catholic thinks that. Twisting someone’s Faith and then mocking it is not OK.
If someone who is Born Again dies, don’t they go to heaven to be with Jeusus? So why not Mary? Is all communication with a saved person who has passed on cut off? If so, why?
The bible has several instances where saved people are communicated wth - the transfiguration being one example, so I don’t get the basis for the position that communication is definitely ended.
I understand that necromancy is forbidden; however a saved person is not dead if they are alive in Christ. Necromancy is wrong and Catholics believe that it is a mortal sin, as well. We are forbidden to consult with fortunetellers and others who communicate with the dead - the dead are in hell with the demons who pretend to be passed on relatives, etc. - this IS forbidden in Catholicism and is considered a mortal sin.
Moses and Elijah communicated with the transfigured Jesus, not the apostles...There is no way you can use that verse to suggest people in heaven communicate with those on earth...
No one thinks that. Mary is saved so she is in Heaven with Jesus. She does not carry out his commands and no Catholic thinks that. Twisting someone’s Faith and then mocking it is not OK.
We all know better than that...You guys have Mary responsible for your salvation...You have Mary handing out grace...Those are just two of the many things you attribute to Mary that only God can do...
“...You guys have Mary responsible for your salvation...You have Mary handing out grace......”
This is not correct. This is a twisted version of the Catholic Faith and it is not Ok.
“Works do not make faith saving”
Absolutely true and no Catholic would ever disagree.
However, faith alone does not save - it is both. Catholics correctly believe all of the verses on Faith being necessary for salvation. We also believe that all of the verses on works are true as well. All scripture is profitable - Salvation depends on both faith and works; not either/or.
St. James Chapter 2 Verse 14
What shall it profit my brethren, if a man say he has faith: but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?
17
So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself.
Faith without works is dead, and works without faith is equally dead.
BOTH are required for salvation.
John 1:10-13 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
Galatians 2:15-21 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ,so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Galatians 3:1-29 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Ephesians 2:1-10And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Not a result of works, so that no man may boast.
Explain the contradiction then with your interpretation of James.
We see it all over these threads...We see it all over the internet...We see it with your popes...One of your popes gave Mary ALL the credit when he survived being shot...
YOu may deny it but the rest of your religion doesn't...
That has been proven to be untrue so many times...There are plenty of verses that not only show that faith does not include works but you will be condemned to hell for relying on works for your salvation...And you guys do everything you can do to avoid those verses...
So if you can not reconcile all the scripture and still come up with the same conclusion, and you can't, your religion's understanding of the scripture is meaningless...
“...so explain why that contradicts whole passages of Scripture ...”
It doesn’t, that’s my point. Catholics embrace every single verse you have set out and then some -
We also believe James when he says Faith without works is dead.
Catholics do not believe in salvation without faith. Salvation requires faith and works. Works don’t get you to heaven without faith, of course not, but faith without works (sola fida) is a construct of Martin Luther.
Matthew: 7:21
Not everyone who saith to me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he the DOTH (an action, a work) the will of my Father who is in heaven.
All scripture is profitable, if you can’t reconcile all the scriptures, your religion’s interpretations are meaningless.
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