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When was it?
Answering Protestants ^ | 27 January 2014 | Matthew Olson

Posted on 01/27/2014 7:57:57 PM PST by matthewrobertolson

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To: Zuriel

The phrase “founded upon” needs to be defined. Of course it is an analogical term. It doesn’t have precisely the same univocal meaning when referring to Peter as when referring to Christ. But it is clear that Peter has some kind of primacy from very early on.

Regarding Mary “hearing” the prayers of people all over the world, and the conclusion that she MUST therefore be “omnipresent.”

The manner in which Mary becomes conscious of people’s prayers is entirely mysterious to us. Of course she is not bodily present everywhere. There is no reason to suppose that she literally hears prayers with the bodily sense of hearing.

But it would be preposterous to deny that it is within God’s power to make her conscious of the prayers of people throughout the world. Eye has not seen, ear has not heard, what God has ready for those who love him.

Objections that are based on a simple-minded insistence that the conditions of life in the hereafter are precisely as they are for us can hardly be taken seriously. “How can Mary hear or pay attention to millions of prayers simultaneously” is one such. It’s like asking where Mary gets the money to pay for the variety of costumes she has worn for her apparitions in the past century.


141 posted on 01/28/2014 1:25:04 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan
Why do you think Catholics are so determined to lie to everyone about their religion? Why are they so committed to the sin of idolatry?

I think most don't lie...They just follow the Pied Piper...

I think that priests spend 4 years of formal education to learn how brilliant man's mind is in the form of human philosophy, before they even get to a seminary...And they try to understand the scriptures with their own intellect instead of the spiritual understanding that only comes from God...

They are then subjected to 3 years of Catholic church history, studying what some of the church fathers taught and the Catholic catechism and of course all the rituals that must be observed...

142 posted on 01/28/2014 1:36:44 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Arthur McGowan
Every time a sinner turns away from sin, he is contradicting Jesus, because turning away from sin implies that the work of salvation is not finished.

Just a play on words...The sacrifice is finished...The atonement is completed...The price is paid, in full...The penalty for sin is complete...

143 posted on 01/28/2014 1:42:50 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Iscool

Exactly. People grow in holiness, even though Jesus’ sacrifice to the Father was completed long ago.

So why does a person’s growth in holiness in Purgatory conflict in any way with the fact that Jesus’ sacrifice to the Father was completed long ago?


144 posted on 01/28/2014 1:45:36 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: matthewrobertolson
And don't forget that, while there is indeed only one salvatory Mediator between us and God (1 Tim 2:5), there are many communicative mediators, like Gabriel (Lk 1:26-38). God didn't deal with Mary directly there -- one of His creatures did!

A little bible study will clear up your faulty Catholic education...

The is ONE mediator between man and God...That's it...One...

There are many intercessors...And they are not the same...

And Gabriel was never an intercessor or a mediator...Angels can not perform those tasks...Angels are messengers, from God...They are not messengers from you to God...

145 posted on 01/28/2014 1:48:10 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Iscool

Well, that’s certainly the classical Protestant view of the intellect and reason.


146 posted on 01/28/2014 1:48:39 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: dartuser

LOL...


147 posted on 01/28/2014 1:56:04 PM PST by Iscool
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To: matthewrobertolson
You are indeed a Christian (assuming that you've been baptized), as demonstrated in the "Middle Ages" portion of the article. But that does not mean that you are in no need of doctrinal or moral correction.

What??? Without eating the Eucharist??? Without attending Mass once a week??? Without saying the Rosary??? And the rest of that long list???

So if you get baptized before your eyes are even opened, before you even know who Mary is, you are a Christian??? You should throw that catechism away and go with just a bible...The bible is a lot easier...

148 posted on 01/28/2014 2:00:29 PM PST by Iscool
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To: cloudmountain
I went on-line to see how many Protestant denominations there are and who they were. Boggles, Ah say, BOGGLES the mind. (Foghorn Leghorn)

Hey, list those 30,000+ denominations, would ya???

149 posted on 01/28/2014 2:04:30 PM PST by Iscool
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To: dartuser
Isn't curious that if the church at Rome was primary in ANY way ... that Rome was not one of the seven churches addressed by Christ in Revelation 2 and 3.

That's a very good point...But he does mention that church in chapter 17...

150 posted on 01/28/2014 2:06:09 PM PST by Iscool
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To: cloudmountain; Gamecock
I went on-line to see how many Protestant denominations there are and who they were. Boggles, Ah say, BOGGLES the mind.

Can you provide the rest of us with the URL that you found your list on? You might just be the first person in FR history who could actually cough up a list.

There are thousands of Protestant denominations and their tenets differ. There are dozens of Catholic denominations (orthodox and such) but they can't hold a candle to the THOUSANDS of Protestant denominations.

While you're at it, toss the URL to those "dozens of Catholic denominations" our way, would you?

151 posted on 01/28/2014 2:08:24 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Iscool
And Gabriel was never an intercessor or a mediator...Angels can not perform those tasks...Angels are messengers, from God...They are not messengers from you to God

Really? So, what about the whole "May it be done" response from her? Gabriel took that response back to God.
152 posted on 01/28/2014 2:10:11 PM PST by matthewrobertolson
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To: Iscool
So if you get baptized before your eyes are even opened, before you even know who Mary is, you are a Christian???

Yes. You are a member of the Christian community. Whether or not you will be saved is, of course, another story.
153 posted on 01/28/2014 2:11:49 PM PST by matthewrobertolson
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To: cloudmountain
From ONLY the petroleum sales it was figured that in 1983 the King of Saudi Arabia was making a cool one BILLION dollars (petrodollars) every two and a half days.

That will make a thousand millionaires...

Back then it cost the Saudis about 5 bucks a barrel to get the oil out of the ground...They were selling it at about 40 dollars a barrel...

It can't cost much more to get it out of the ground now but they won't sell it for less than 70 dollars a barrel and its been hanging around 100+ dollars per barrel...

They are robbing the world but heh, it's their oil...

154 posted on 01/28/2014 2:16:41 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Arthur McGowan
So why does a person’s growth in holiness in Purgatory conflict in any way with the fact that Jesus’ sacrifice to the Father was completed long ago?

Probably because there is no purgatory...It's another fabrication of your religion...

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

2Co_5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I guess that means that Paul wasn't willing to be in purgatory (since he didn't mention it) or purgatory doesn't exist...

155 posted on 01/28/2014 2:33:33 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Arthur McGowan
Well, that’s certainly the classical Protestant view of the intellect and reason.

That's not the Catholic view as well??? How does superior intellect and man's wisdom/reason equip one to understand the scriptures???

156 posted on 01/28/2014 2:36:11 PM PST by Iscool
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To: Iscool
They are robbing the world but heh, it's their oil...

Yes, it is and it's the ONLY resource they have.

We don't REALLY have to be do dependent on petroleum, do we?

.

.

Apparently we do.

157 posted on 01/28/2014 2:41:56 PM PST by cloudmountain
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To: cloudmountain

1. Wow!
2. LOL. Good ideas! :)

Dominus vobiscum!


158 posted on 01/28/2014 2:44:29 PM PST by matthewrobertolson
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To: matthewrobertolson
Really? So, what about the whole "May it be done" response from her? Gabriel took that response back to God.

No he didn't...Gabriel didn't ask Mary anything...And she only acknowledged what he told her...

159 posted on 01/28/2014 3:04:13 PM PST by Iscool
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To: matthewrobertolson

True, there are instances where people have “talked” to angles, but I can think of no instance in the bible where anyone prayed to Gabriel or any other angel.


160 posted on 01/28/2014 3:08:09 PM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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