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To: Faith Presses On
Over a long time I’ve seen that I can’t accept much of essential Catholic doctrine because it twists or ignores God’s Word. For example, it calls Mary sinless and says it was necessary, for Jesus to be without sin (even though it was the Holy Spirit who placed Him in Mary’s womb, somehow) , for Mary to have been conceived without sin. It doesn’t explain how Mary, though, could be without sin if *her* parents weren’t. The Catholic belief on Jesus and Mary requires a sinless lineage going back to Adam and Eve themselves, and neither were sinless.

Unless one can find an instance of her sinning, they should assume sinlessness automatically. But anyway, she is the New Ark of the Covenant. The Ark of the Covenant, in case you are unfamiliar with it, held objects like the Ten Commandments. It was so precious that, in 2 Samuel 6, God strikes down Uzzah, who mishandled it. Mary held God-incarnate. Imagine how much more precious she must be!

And Mary's sinlessness does not require a special lineage. It only requires the active intervention of God.
127 posted on 01/28/2014 11:26:33 AM PST by matthewrobertolson
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To: matthewrobertolson; Faith Presses On; Gamecock
Unless one can find an instance of her sinning, they should assume sinlessness automatically.

And you know what they say about "assume"...

....she [Mary] is the New Ark of the Covenant. The Ark of the Covenant, in case you are unfamiliar with it, held objects like the Ten Commandments. It was so precious that, in 2 Samuel 6, God strikes down Uzzah, who mishandled it. Mary held God-incarnate. Imagine how much more precious she must be!

Is this how Mary managed to stay a perpetual virgin - God threatened to strike down anyone (including her husband Joseph) who touched her?

Raiders of the Lost Ark

139 posted on 01/28/2014 12:06:23 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: matthewrobertolson

One should not assume Mary to be sinless. The Bible says “there is none that does good, no, not one,” and “all have gone astray.” And if intervention by God is needed to keep her from original sin, then if you don’t believe that it’s been revealed whether or not that intervention happened, that leaves the assumption that Mary also shared the guilt of original sin and Jesus was Her Savior. I’m sure you’re aware, too, that this is a doctrine that only gradually was adopted by the Catholic Church.

I agree in a sense that she represents the Ark of the Covenant for the New Testament, but what exactly does that mean? Does everything about the old Ark just simply apply to her because the Old Covenant = New Covenant? But it doesn’t. The “Old Ark” doesn’t equal the “New Ark” any more than “the Law” equals Jesus. Of course, she *could* possibly have those points in common with the Old Ark, but mere possibility is not conclusive. So much Catholic belief seems to operate on “it’s possible so it must be true.” Cont’d.


170 posted on 01/28/2014 4:47:28 PM PST by Faith Presses On
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To: matthewrobertolson

Cont’d. But we know with the Old Covenant, the Law, it was obey it or die without mercy, and the Old Ark shared that character, which was that sin can’t be in the presence of holy God. In short, what conclusively proves that Mary was without sin, and secondly, what bearing does that question have on *the Gospel*?

It also doesn’t hold that Mary’s sinlessness not depend on lineage but intervention by God? If Mary only needs God’s intervention, then why isn’t that same argument good enough for Jesus, the Son of God Himself? It’s simply illogical. The Catholic Church says Mary needs to be sinless because IT concludes that God’s intervention through the Virgin birth isn’t enough for *Jesus* to be without sin, but then God’s intervention is enough for Mary to be sinless, though born of two sinners. *Logic* doesn’t support that conclusion.

It also seems to me that the Catholic Church says some things while doing differently. One example would be saying it doesn’t teach the worship of Mary and “the saints” while it clearly does. If you’d explain worship to some little children and asked them about what the Catholic Church teaches, they could tell you the truth on it. I’ve got Catholic radio on right now. They just said that the “glory of Mary” would be too much for us, much less the glory of God. The Rosary addresses Mary as “our life, our sweetness and our hope.” Mary was a blameless woman, without doubt, and “blessed among women,” but she was Jesus’ earthly mother and not on par with His Heavenly Father. Jesus is “my life, my sweetness and my hope” and no mere creature can share any part of that.


171 posted on 01/28/2014 5:09:05 PM PST by Faith Presses On
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