Posted on 02/26/2014 9:49:13 AM PST by Dr. Thorne
Following are my notes on a sermon that I preached shortly after I was converted from the Catholic Church back in 1962. It was the first sermon that I preached. Introduction:
In this lesson I want to state some of the reasons I left the Catholic Church. I do not wish to state any of the personal experiences I had as result of leaving. I will mention, though, that I came from a large, devout Catholic family of twelve children. I attended Trinity High School in Louisville, Kentucky. At the time of my intense Scriptural study, I had two brothers who were enrolled in Catholic seminaries studying to be priests. I also want to state I did not leave the Catholic Church because of some evil that I had done or that was done to me. I left the Catholic Church because I came to believe that it was contrary to the Bible. This I will endeavor to show in this study.
(Excerpt) Read more at bible.ca ...
1. Plenty of Protestants do not see those people as Christian but as heretics and apostates.
2. The RCC is not innocent in promoting a gay agenda. Even Pope Francis acknowledged this fact last year. No offense intended, but were I a Catholic I'd concern myself less about the lesbians running the PCUSA and the UMC and would instead focus on preventing lesbian nuns and homosexual priests from dominating the Throne of Saint Peter.
Bah-BAM!
2) Poor catechesis.
Anything else is rationalization.
The guy that wrote this piece disagrees with you...Can you refute any of his claims???
I will pray for you. Feel free to have the last word I know that many of you need that to feel better about yourselves.
How about the first claim. It’s faith and not subject to the “rigors” of enlightenment scientific rationalism. Which was his first point for leaving.
An assertion that lacks an argument. Who knows what is meant by sola scriptura here, but do you hold that Scripture as the assured infallible Word of God is not the supreme transcendent standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims?
And that Scripture formally provides the Truth needed for salvation, and materially provides for such things as reason, the church, teachers, etc., and instrumentally able to make one complete, equipped for every good work?
And that it also materially provides for recognition of both men and writings of God as being so, and thus for a canon?
And that rather than Scripture being the supreme infallible authority on what Truth is, then the church is that infallible supreme authority, and inheritor of Divine promises of preservation, based on it being the historical steward of Scripture?
Explain please. Which will add to that which we have dealt with sometimes before on the past, on this and related issues .
Who or what are you going to pray to???
Enter Sola Ecclesia, in which the church is the supreme infallible authority, resulting in not simply individuals having differences which depends upon the degree of "manifestation of the Truth" for their veracity, but that of competing elitist churches, with assurance being based upon the premise of their promised assured veracity.
Once again Keating teaches this presumption quite clearly, when trying to justify the strict lack of any actual Scriptural proof for the Assumption:
The mere fact that the Church teaches the doctrine of the Assumption as definitely true is a guarantee that it is true.” — Karl Keating, Catholicism and Fundamentalism (San Francisco: Ignatius, 1988), p. 275; http://www.catholic.com/tracts/immaculate-conception-and-assumption
For in strict truth that the Church has no antiquity, but it "rests upon its own supernatural and perpetual consciousness."
The mere fact that the Church teaches the doctrine of the Assumption as definitely true is a guarantee that it is true.” — Karl Keating, Catholicism and Fundamentalism (San Francisco: Ignatius, 1988), p. 275;
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/immaculate-conception-and-assumption
Talk about pulling oneself up by their boot strapas.
I will provide two hints...
John 6:68 (KJV) -- Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
John 6:63 (AMP) -- It is the Spirit Who gives life [He is the Life-giver]; the flesh conveys no benefit whatever [there is no profit in it]. The words (truths) that I have been speaking to you are spirit and life.
And for good measure...
1 Peter 1:18-25 (AMP)
18 You must know (recognize) that you were redeemed (ransomed) from the useless (fruitless) way of living inherited by tradition from [your] forefathers, not with corruptible things [such as] silver and gold,
19 But [you were purchased] with the precious blood of Christ (the Messiah), like that of a [sacrificial] lamb without blemish or spot.
20 It is true that He was chosen and foreordained (destined and foreknown for it) before the foundation of the world, but He was brought out to public view (made manifest) in these last days (at the end of the times) for the sake of you.
21 Through Him you believe in (adhere to, rely on) God, Who raised Him up from the dead and gave Him honor and glory, so that your faith and hope are [centered and rest] in God.
22 Since by your obedience to the Truth through the [Holy ] Spirit you have purified your hearts for the sincere affection of the brethren, [see that you] love one another fervently from a pure heart.
23 You have been regenerated (born again), not from a mortal origin (seed, sperm), but from one that is immortal by the ever living and lasting Word of God.
24 For all flesh (mankind) is like grass, and all its glory (honor) like [the] flower of grass. The grass withers and the flower drops off,
25 But the Word of the Lord (divine instruction, the Gospel) endures forever. And this Word is the good news which was preached to you.
“There would be no Bible if not for the Catholic Church.”
please explain for those of us not familiar with this fact?
The Bible was not in writing from the first day it was spoken, at least not the New Testament other than Paul’s letters.
There was ONLY one Christian Church at the time of the First Bible, which was agreed to at the Council of Hippo I believe, in Northern Africa.
That was nearly 300 years into the Christian Era.
Catholic Monks and Scribes preserved the documents of the Church.
Even Martin Luther agrees on this point.
And, by the way, the King James Bible did translate directly from the Catholic Latin Vulgate for many of its Books. Luther did not obtain his entire text from the Orthodox, and neither did the King James translators.
But we enter heaven by the narrow gate.
What’s wrong with this picture?
**Catholics pray to Mary.**
No, we don’t pray to Mary or the saints. We ask her (or the saints) to pray for us.
“No, we don’t pray to Mary or the saints.”
Why does this Catholic website say different?
http://www.catholic.org/prayers/prayer.php?s=31
Your understanding of prayer is flawed. And even if we did, you honestly think God cares? I think not. You think Jesus will stand at the pearly gates, cluck his tongue and say, “You prayed to my Mother. Off to Hades with you.”
Yeah, He doesn't care about idolatry, He's cool with it, just ask the prophets of Baal.
No, because salvation is based on faith in Christ, not having read the entire Bible.
YOU are the person who is bearing false witness and the burden is on YOU!
You made the following statements.
For the first 300 years of the Christian Faith, there were very, very few people who had actually read all of Scripture. Scripture was rare, it was fragile, it was priceless and it was hard to reproduce. Illiteracy rates were very high until recent times. and all I said was *Prove it*.
You made the initial assertions. It's YOUR responsibility to back up the claims with fact.
Repeating said assertions is not providing fact to back it up. It's merely repeating your opinion. and repeating an opinion often enough doesn't make it truth.
So go ahead. Provide the evidence instead of attacking me or repeating yourself.
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