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Who Needs Works?
What The Bible Says About ^ | Rev John Odhner

Posted on 03/15/2014 5:31:38 AM PDT by DaveMSmith

It seems to be a matter of common sense to say that good people will go to heaven and evil people will go to hell. Something would be terribly wrong if God could send an innocent, sincere, charitable, helpful person to hell. Yet sometimes people suggest that a person's salvation depends upon his faith alone, and not upon the good things he does, or how he lives, or whether he obeys the Ten Commandments. The Bible never mentions "faith alone" (except in one passage which says faith alone is dead--James 2:24) The concept first came into existence during the Reformation, when Luther and other Protestants split away from the Roman Catholic Church. Luther's concept of how a person gets to heaven was different from what had been taught by the Catholic Church. Luther's phrase "faith alone" emphasized this difference.

In the early Christian Church there was no controversy about whether a person could be saved by faith alone without obeying the Lord and living well. Early Christians knew that loving the Lord meant obeying His commandments, (Matthew 19:17; John 14:21; 15:10) and that salvation depended on bearing fruit (that is, doing good works). (Matthew 7:19; 16:27; 21:43; Luke 3:9; John 5:29; 15:1-16; Revelation 20:13; 22:12) In fact there are so many passages which say that a good life is necessary, that it would be quite a contradiction if the Bible did say that faith alone is enough.

Probably the closest the Bible comes to mentioning "faith alone" is Paul's phrase, "man is justified by faith without the works of the law." (Romans 3:28) Sometimes this phrase has been used to defend or promote the idea that man is saved by faith alone. But if we look at Paul's statement in context we can see that Paul was simply saying that you can be saved without being a Jew. (Read Romans 3:28-31) Some early Christians felt that to be a good Christian, one should obey all the ritual laws of the Jewish Church. "Certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, `Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.'" (Acts 15:1) Now Paul knew that it made no difference to the Lord whether a person was circumcised or not, so he made it clear that it is not necessary to keep the laws about washing, sacrifices, offerings, holy days, diet, and circumcision. (Colossians 2:16; Galatians 2; Romans 3; 2:25-28; Hebrews 8-10) "Does this blessedness then come only on the circumcised, and not on the uncircumcised also?" (Romans 4:9) "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what counts." (1 Corinthians 7:19) "In Jesus Christ neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working by love." (Galatians 5:6) Paul says here not "faith alone," but "faith which works by love". Faith, works and love are all necessary.

These and other references make it clear that when Paul said a man is saved by faith without the works of the law, he meant that a person is saved without circumcision and other ritualistic works. There are other laws, which relate not to ritual but to living well, as for example the Ten Commandments and laws such as "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." (Leviticus 19:18) Paul made it clear that it was necessary to keep these laws in order to be saved. He said, "Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, not adulterers, nor homosexuals... nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9,10; see also Galatians 5:19-20) Paul had no thought at all of doing away with the law: "Do we abrogate the law through faith? Far from it! We establish the law." (Romans 3:31) He knew that salvation depended on action, not just on faith: "Not the hearers of the law shall be justified by God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (Romans 2:13) And he taught that every loving person will obey God's law: "Love does no harm to a neighbor: therefore love is the fulfillment of he law." (Romans 13:10)

It is clear from the passages above that according to Paul, we must keep the Lord's commandments and live a good life in order to be saved. This agrees completely with what other disciples said about living well. What could be more direct that this statement of James: "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?... Faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.... By works a person is justified, and not by faith alone." (James 2:14-24) John showed that you can't have faith unless you love others when he said, "He who does not love does not know God, for God is love." (1 John 4:8) He also taught that we can and should obey God's commands: "This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous." (1 John 5:3)

For any Christian, the way to eternal life is to follow Jesus and do as He says. And what He says is very plain: "If you will enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17) This is not only the way to life, but the way to happiness: "If you know these things, happy are you if you do them." (John 13:17) It is the way to love the Lord: "He who has My commandments, and keeps them, he it is who loves Me." (John 14:21) And it is the way to be His friend: "You are my friends if you do whatever I command you." (John 15:14)


TOPICS: Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian
KEYWORDS: commandments; faithalone; newchurch
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To: boatbums

Thanks to Daniel1212 for removing the mask again.


101 posted on 03/15/2014 10:07:54 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: daniel1212
Yet in the past some RCs would join forces with an antagonistic atheist against us.

I have a pretty good idea which ones you are talking about. Many, as I remember, were on the subject of the deity of Jesus Christ, which, oddly enough, were on the side of those who claimed it was not taught in the Bible! Even now, few Catholics join in on threads where this is discussed to defend their OWN church's teachings. I don't get it.

102 posted on 03/15/2014 10:32:19 PM PDT by boatbums (Simul justis et peccator.)
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To: boatbums; daniel1212; metmom

Ah we saw a bit of that this week with the historical accuracy of the Gospels. The OP was RC and did not defend his own thread as Prots came to the rescue AND then had the audacity to counter you (or metmom) who was actually defending his thread.

I see this on other sites as well.


103 posted on 03/15/2014 10:45:28 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: xone

“Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. Whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

What do YOU think this means?

Why are you calling these words of Christ, “the slimmest of reeds”?

Are you claiming for yourself infallible interpretation of Scripture?


104 posted on 03/15/2014 10:53:38 PM PDT by G Larry (There's the Beef!)
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To: redleghunter
Odd that! I wonder if it is more important for some that they be seen fighting against “Protestants” than fighting against false doctrine? Some don't seem to know when to take off the boxing gloves and put on the working gloves.
105 posted on 03/15/2014 11:20:43 PM PDT by boatbums (Simul justis et peccator.)
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To: DaveMSmith
Who Needs Works?

No one, unless they look past the 'Saved By Grace' that Everyone claims to believe; into the territory of 'Kept By Works'; which SO many tend to preach.


The Book says:

 
 
 

Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?

To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.


John 6:28-29

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”


 
1 John 3:21-23

Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.

 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.


James 1:27 

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 


106 posted on 03/16/2014 4:20:31 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: DaveMSmith

Colossians 3:8–18

New King James: But now you yourselves are to put off ...

Old King James: But now ye also put off ...


107 posted on 03/16/2014 4:24:51 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: DaveMSmith
So the question still stands... what is it we DO? Sit slack jawed waiting? What is the process?

If you can find the ANSWER; we'l surely be glad to 'know' it.

108 posted on 03/16/2014 4:26:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: DaveMSmith
Paul lists over 95 terms of what a Christian should not be doing.

Ok; but what if a 'christian' DOES do one of those things?

Do you say they are now UNborn again?

109 posted on 03/16/2014 4:28:21 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Salvation
Jesus talked about "works" a lot.

And HE talked about REQUIREMENTS a little..

110 posted on 03/16/2014 4:29:19 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ex-snook
Good works won’t save us but bad works will condemn us. I’ll go with the good works.

Can I place you in the 'Kept By Works' column then?

111 posted on 03/16/2014 4:30:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Salvation
Can I place you in the 'Kept By Works' column then?
112 posted on 03/16/2014 4:30:57 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: avenir

I think you expressed it quite well:

“I ain’t like that filthy publican over there!”


113 posted on 03/16/2014 4:31:51 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Iscool

yes


114 posted on 03/16/2014 4:32:45 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Rashputin
Can I place you in the 'Kept By Works' column then?
115 posted on 03/16/2014 4:33:09 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: avenir
You won’t find me mocking a believer who wants to “live godly in Christ Jesus”!

Indeed.

This thread (and our churches) are FULL of folks who came from Judea to Antioch...


Acts 15

The Council at Jerusalem
 1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

 5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

 6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

 12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

 16 “‘After this I will return
   and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
   and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
   even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]
 18 things known from long ago.[c]

 19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
 22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:

   The apostles and elders, your brothers,

   To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

   Greetings.

 24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

   Farewell.

 30 So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. 33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. [34] [d] 35 But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.

Disagreement Between Paul and Barnabas
 36 Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing.” 37 Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, 38 but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. 39 They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, 40 but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord. 41 He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.
116 posted on 03/16/2014 4:37:30 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: redleghunter
Acts of the Apostles has many examples of those who hear the Gospel believe, received the Holy Spirit and were baptized.

Yup!

Right up there...


3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted.
.
.
.
7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.

117 posted on 03/16/2014 4:40:14 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: CPO retired
There is an preacher who say’s “faith alone” and who has had some shady extramarital affairs.

There is a preacher who say’s “works; too” and who has stolen something in the past...
There is a preacher who say’s “works; too” and who has lied about something...
There is a preacher who say’s “works; too” and who has cheated his neighbor...
There is a preacher who say’s “works; too” and who has lusted after the flesh...
There is a preacher who say’s “works; too” and who has worshipped the first day of buck season...
There is a preacher who say’s “works; too” and who has worked in his yard on Sunday...

118 posted on 03/16/2014 4:45:43 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Jim Noble
As in, Last Judgement?

Good point!!

Only ONE thing will be judged there to determine your salvation:

Whether your name is written in the Lamb's Book of LIFE.


Exodus 32:32-33
 But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written.”  But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.
 

Daniel 12:1
 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.
 
 
 
Philippians 4:3
 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
 

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
 

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
 
 
 
Revelation 17:8
 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
 
 
 
Revelation 20:11-15
"Then I saw a great White Throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED. Another book was opened WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE. The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to their works.  Then death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
 
Revelation 21:27
Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

119 posted on 03/16/2014 4:49:04 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Jim Noble
As in, sheep and goats?

Hey!!!

(I mean... hay!)

120 posted on 03/16/2014 4:51:26 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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