Posted on 03/27/2014 10:20:21 AM PDT by Repent and Believe
Charitos from charis To indue with special honor make accepted.
The important part is tha God’s grace is unmerited...the unmerited part comes from the fact that it is by grace we are saved not by the law or works.
He was not speaking of the law...
I only see charis used in the Greek. Must be that wikipedia definition :)
‘let him deny himself’ means what to you? To me, this is exactly what Paul was speaking of... turning away... laying aside. And, Mark 10:21 is so specific about the law, I have no idea how you could utter that.
The Lord Jesus said that He was the telos of the law. Not the cessation of law but the goal of the law. Paul writes in Galatians of the pedagogical use of the law to bring us to Christ. But there are other uses including the civic use (the civil magistrate is to punish bad guys) and the Christian's use for sanctification; that is to be holy or at least pursue holiness. In the latter Christ is the Holy one and a life that is a delight to Him is one of faith and holiness according to the law, which is His very own holiness.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
Also see Matt 15:1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.” 3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ “
Especially if you have a very old car.
5.56mm
“And since we cannot be perfect we must have grace... that was the whole point. HE kept the law.... that was the end of the law....do you not understand what you read????”
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Not so fast!
If we are not perfect by the time of our death then there is purgatory reserved for us, for no unclean thing shall enter heaven, thus, if full purgation through the grace of Jesus (which opens your cooperation with the resulting action of God in your life), is not complete in this life, then in the next your union with God will be delayed until He is finished perfecting you with His generous graces. Yes, without the blood of the Lamb there would be no purgatory, only hell for us.
Meanwhile, best to pay close attention to conforming all your actions to God’s ways perfectly, for the less you do, the more tendancy toward committing mortal sin you will develop! Unrepented mortal sin at time of death will never be forgiven.
“Apparently you do not understand the importance of the terminology...the Nazarene fulfilled the Law hence and forever more GRACE is that which is necessary.”
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A man once gave his son an automobile for a graduation present (complete with owners manual). The son neglected to read the owners manual and soon forgot some of the ten commandments of car ownership. He took off the tires and threw them in a lake to form a fishing reef. The son ran out of sinkers while fishing and decided to used the car key for a sinker but his line snagged and it snapped, losing the hook, line and sinker (car key). When the son tried to return from his fishing trip his car would not start for he had no backup key.
So will it be for the man who recieves the free gift of salvation through Jesus’ loving sacrifice on Calvary, but then neglects to study and live God’s word on how to relate to God and how to relate to his neighbor as a Christian. That man’s life and relationships will be in ruins and he will soon be lost.
bleeech... nice try. Purgatory is the imaginary place that the roman church sends you....
I couldn't disagree more. Your Rabbi has told (commanded) you outright to do and teach Torah. That is pretty hard to get around. What is it exactly that YHWH is writing upon your heart?
I can’t agree with you on that. If you’re Jewish and go to Synagog then you live Torah. If you’re Christian there is no more Torah but Yashua who paid the price of sin and completed the Law - i.e. Torah.
Close enough - I know I don't merit the favor of salvation. Nor can I ever w/o the covering blood of Yeshua.
I do my best to hold my life up to the Commandments because God gave them so we may be happy. I'm not perfect but I accept that I can do better in a world where sin is all around us. Paul gave over 95 things that are sinful! Do we just say "never-mind, I have GRACE!". A huge lie for the quick and easy salvation hucksters!
That is very good thinking - Indeed, an aspect of Torah is 'right living'... And 'right living' doesn't change. Another really important aspect is as a filter upon interpretation - That which the Brit Hadasha CAN'T be saying, without breaking Torah... Very important.
Jesus taught the commandments and many times Paul teaches to lay aside the old man. I'm sticking with scripture.
Exactly so. Good for you.
Too bad lots of Protestants and Catholics don’t know Torah and what it’s all about.
NO. Then you keep Halakha. The Jews do not keep Torah.
If you’re Christian there is no more Torah but Yashua who paid the price of sin and completed the Law - i.e. Torah.
Part of the prophecy declaring Messiah is that he will be Torah made flesh - That he will show how to keep Torah perfectly. As HIS disciple, he is your example. he is the one you must emulate - and HE told YOU to do and teach Torah, even as he fought for Torah, and kept Torah, and even as his sent out ones kept Torah, well after his death and resurrection. You'd better take another look at the Brit Hadasha...
You are right. It is too bad. it grieves me.
I was merely responding to that statement. If failure to keep all of the Law condemns me, then what purpose did Jesus serve? I did not say that the Ten Commandments (or Jesus's modifications to them) are not applicable, but keeping them is not the source of my salvation. And, note that God's mercy means that I don't always suffer the consequences of my shortcomings, nor does He promise I won't suffer any of the consequences, but He does promise I won't suffer the ultimate consequence - eternal punishment.
Regarding your comments “…I was merely responding to that statement. If failure to keep all of the Law condemns me, then what purpose did Jesus serve?...”
Thanks for your concern and thoughts.
The primary sense of what I was saying is that by “curse”, I mean: specific damage to yourself and humanity that will befall you and others related to the offenses. The same God who designed the physical world designed the spiritual world.
Try to see the specific harm that follows violation of a Command. For example, when you lust for someone’s wife, your own wife suffers from your distraction and that relationship snowballs into an inferno of anger and distrust and on and on ending in separation, divorce, unsettled children.
Which is to say: Why not obey the commandments even from a
purely survivalist viewpoint?!
At the same time, I fear danger for those who distill the Gospel to the point where it becomes a simple formula with the grace of God’s mercy exempting me from needing to cooperate with God’s word in my daily decisions.
“If failure to keep all of the Law condemns me, then what purpose did Jesus serve?”
Jesus’ purpose in offering his very life as a pleasing oblation (sacrifice) to the Father serves to redeem those so condemned for neglecting to obey their maker! But please note very carefully: The fruits of that redemption include one’s forward adherence to the way of Christ which includes obedience to the Ten Commandments. It seems presumptuous to suppose that to fail in one of the commandments cannot play a role in the loss of our soul. Did not Jesus tell the young man who inquired about how to reach heaven, to keep the commandments? Can you illustrate one place where Jesus fails Himself to keep all Ten Commandments?
To be forgiven offenses against the law does not exempt one from thereafter following it. Did not Jesus say to the woman “Go thy way, and sin no more.”?
Did not Jesus tell the man (who had been afflicted for 38 years) just after healing him of his affliction to “Sin no more lest something worse befall you.”? Something worse could be the loss of ones’ soul.
I wouldn’t say that keeping them is the source of my salvation, but rather that it is a component of my salvation. That is one reason why many Christians throughout the ages have emphasized the regular examination of one’s life and frequent confession of sins, in order to reform your life and perfect it through the grace from the atonement, given upon each earnest confession. Jesus did not only say “Believe the good news!” but rather, “Repent and believe the good news!”
Do you think that it is impossible to lose your soul after putting your faith in Christ? I warn that it is quite possible. That is why Jesus said to “Do this in remembrance of Me.” He’s concerned that when we forget Him we will fall back into sin and confusion and lose our soul. Think not lightly of sin. The Ten Commandments are your friend while Christ is your Lord and Savior!
Your comments ended with “…but He does promise I won’t suffer the ultimate consequence - eternal punishment.”
This sounds possibly presumptuous. Even Saint Paul the apostle in one of his later letters states that he hasn’t attained salvation yet but that he strives, buffeting his body lest he lose “the prize”.
The primary sense of what I was saying is that by “curse”, I mean: specific damage to yourself and humanity . . .
Yes, sin has consequences - sometimes to us, sometimes to our loved ones, sometimes to others, and sometimes to all of the above. But, sometimes, although we should never expect it, in His mercy and grace, God keeps us from all or part of the consequences. And, sometimes, He goes beyond the consequences to discipline us.
Can you illustrate one place where Jesus fails Himself to keep all Ten Commandments?
Jesus was perfect, and He was a perfect Jew - He kept the Ten Commandments and every other Jewish Law. He had to, otherwise He would not have been sinless. But, because He was sinless and was the eternal sacrifice for our sins, we do not have to be, and, in fact, cannot be perfect.
It seems presumptuous to suppose that to fail in one of the commandments cannot play a role in the loss of our soul.
I attempt to follow God's leading and Christ's example because I am saved, not in order to be saved, and to be His light and salt on the earth such that others will follow Him. If my works have anything to do with my salvation, then Christ's sacrifice was useless.
Do you think that it is impossible to lose your soul after putting your faith in Christ?
Yes, I can lose my salvation, but it is not on a day-to-day basis, depending on how good I am. I did nothing to earn or deserve my salvation, except to repent and accept Christ as my Lord and Saviour. How can I, therefore, do anything to unearn or undeserve that salvation, except to willfully reject Him.
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