John 16 is from the Upper Room discourse ... only Jesus and the 12 were there ... the whole context of the discourse is that Jesus is going away. His death, resurrection, and ascension are near ... He specifically said He was going back to the Father ...
He is speak to his apostles ... not everyone. Is it really so hard to just read the text ... in context?
I am typically away from the keyboard, Dartuser. Only on occasion do I put down my honey-do list, or a good book, and check out the new threads, or respond to a post or two.
>>>... then take a deep breath ... get a little oxygen to your brain ...<<<
That reeks, simultaneously, of condescension and desperation.
>>>your in desperate need<<<
It is nice, from time to time, to have to someone to engage with in a serious debate. But I am far from desperate. When I am not marking items off my honey-do list, I have access to truck loads of biblical and historical books and commentaries, by legendary authors, from here:
https://archive.org/advancedsearch.php
Check it out.
Dartuser, this is a debate forum. Wouldn't you feel better if you contributed something of real substance to the forum, at least in your own thread? So far all I have read comes across as a steady whine. And why is everything so cryptic? Are we not supposed to let our lights shine before men?
I will attempt to unencrypt. You wrote:
John 16 is from the Upper Room discourse ... only Jesus and the 12 were there ... the whole context of the discourse is that Jesus is going away. His death, resurrection, and ascension are near ... He specifically said He was going back to the Father ... He is speak to his apostles ... not everyone. Is it really so hard to just read the text ... in context?
I sorta thought I did quote John 16 in context. I am not certain, but I believe the statement you are questioning is my interpretation of this:
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged." (Jn 16:7-11 KJV)
Jesus said, "I go to my Father, and ye see me no more." That is clear: no interpretation is necessary. Therefore the verses fore and aft should be interpreted in that light.
Jesus began that chapter, as a continuation of Chapter 15, with a warning to his disciples that their lives would be in danger from the Jews:
"These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me." (Jn 16:1-3 KJV)
I am reminded of Paul (Saul) who consented to Stephen's murder. Paul believed at the time that he was doing the right thing: that he was doing God's service.
Jesus follows with some comments about his own destiny:
"But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." (Jn 16:5-7 KJV)
That led into the aforementioned passage, verses 7-11, that states we will see Jesus no more. Jesus continued his explanation of his ascension to the Father and sending the Comforter, and then said this:
"Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you." (Jn 16:19-22 KJV)
That seems like a contradiction, until it is placed in the proper context. As we all know, after his resurrection, Jesus did spend some time with his disciples; but that was before his ascension to the Father: before sending the Comforter. Verses 7-11 indicate that once ascended, his disciples would see him no more; so there is no contradiction.
So what about claims that Jesus will physically reign on earth for 1000 years? David said this:
"The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven. . . " (Ps 11:4 KJV)
"The Lord hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all." (Ps 103:19 KJV)
And, of course, there is this:
"Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?" (Acts 7:49 KJV)
The Lord's throne is in heaven, where it will remain forever.
Recall that after his baptism, and while he was still "naïve," that is, before angels ministered unto him (Matt 4:11,) Christ was tempted by Satan. Satan offered Christ all the kingdoms of the world, and Christ rejected them. Therefore, when Christ stated in John 18:36 that his kingdom was not of this world (kosmos, not aeon,) he meant it literally.
Philip