How Hitler and Judas could end up in heaven

It doesn’t address the eternal suffering of the fallen angels

You are right. They are outside the scope of what I’m talking about and their fate muddies the waters here. I’m talking about the fate of the lost who occuy the human tent.

Gehenna was a garbage dump, not a furnace. It had both worms and fire to consume. And in both cases it points out that the force that consumes does not die. Again, an analogy (for obviously Gehenna is not the literal subject of Jesus’ words) for the fate being final. They are gone. Permanently.

I’d been under the impression that you found it to be too cruel of an idea to attribute to God. Was I wrong?

Not wrong, but just only hitting a small part of it.

It does not fit with the personality of the God of the bible, His relationship with creation and His dealings with man. In every othe way he seems, from a human understanding uf justice, to be truly just. He is the judge that respects the rule of law. Nobody guilty of a crime wants that judge. They want the one that likes to let everybody off if they promise to be good next time.

But look at how he treats Israel. Sure, bad acts have consequences, but he still loves them. There is plenty of scripture to back this up and you probably agree with me anyway.

So lets move on to those he has lost all patience with. What happened to Sodom? What happened to the nations Israel was told to destroy? What happened even to Judas? All of them were wiped out. Not one word about making it painful for them. In fact, to return to Israel for a second, the only times I can find in the bible where God DOES make it painful is when it is those He loves, to punish to teach a lesson. and they may then come out of it stronger and with more faith. This touches on the life of the believer, actually.

So, when dealing with those that are “not His”, God is pretty consistent. He puts up with them until it’s time to remove them. They are simply “gone”.

But the other problem is that this “God tortures the lost for all eternity” message is one those that hate Christianity absolutely love. In fact, I’ve actually had arguments with them similar to the argument I’m having here. It’s almost funny.

Many of them are “ex-christian” and think they know the bible. When I point out that they may be wrong about God being so cruel (the God they claim doesn’t exist) they start pulling out the same scriptures being used here to defend the eternal suffering meme. The core of their anti-God argument and most powerful weapon is the teaching that God condemns those who don’t believe to an eternity of firy suffering. The cling to that like a drowning man clings to his life preserver.

It is very important to them that that is the teaching of Christianity. I think it is because any reasonable man who has not been taught the bible, that hears this message, and puts two and two together about the narrow road, etc., sees the God of the bible as a sadistic fire god and considers the whole thing a silly made up tribal religion - and doesn’t bother to research it further.

I also believe the lost will literally choose to not follow Christ when given the chance. And if a person truly believes that eternal suffering is not the fate of the lost, if they are against Jesus they will chose against him, while those that are “for” him will choose him regardless of what happens to the lost.

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