Posted on 06/09/2014 9:26:16 PM PDT by Salvation
“Within Christianity, he counts 33,820 denominations.
30,000 of them are Protestant denominations, I read. Amazing, isn’t it, the diversity of faiths that God implanted.”
A house divided against itself will fall. Profound words?
“If it is not the church which can determine and authenticate the canon of Scripture who can?”
If you surrender your authority externally to another then it is not yours to surrender to God when you go within. Go within, find the Holy Spirit and allow it to guide you.
Do you believe? And do those sign follow YOU?
Acts 8 and 11 are describing Confirmation which is in addition to Baptism. This in no way negates the necessity of Baptism. In Acts 8 it explicitly says that they were previously baptized. In Acts 1 Jesus is foretelling the descent of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. It is because of this descent that the church can administer the sacraments and teach with authority. Welcome to the Catholic Church!
It is this division caused by the Reformation that has lead to the loss of faith and secularism that we see today.
So you know nothing about textual issues then?
In fact, why do we accept Mark or Luke as Scripture since neither was an apostle nor a witness to our Lord?
They were companions of the apostles.
It is only on the authority of the Church church which accepted them as Scripture.
Agree ...
If it is not the church which can determine and authenticate the canon of Scripture who can?
Here is where your Romanism trips you up. The church doesnt determine canonicity ... God determined it. The NT was God-breathed, therefore it is authoritative. It is God who determined the canon via inspiration of the texts. The only thing left for the church to do was to recognize those texts that were authoritative ... and they did very early on (long before the councils in 300+ AD.)
By 60 AD Peter already recognized Pauls writings as scripture ... because they were written by Paul! Peter didn't need any council or church to tell him that ... he recognized the apostolic authority of Pauls writing ... and so did all the churches. That Peter recognized Pauls writings as scripture before the completion of the NT also shows that the recognition of the canon was gradual (since Revelation was not even penned until 95 AD).
The church doesn't determine the canon, God determined it by inspiring the writing.
As you can tell by my comments, my conversations with the Priest are quite unusual. Funny how he asks permission if it is OK to discuss my comments with his spiritual mentor!!!
Profound words all right--from he "House Divided" speech, one of Abraham Lincoln's best-known speeches.
NICE try.
A house divided against itself will fall.
Profound words?
“Profound words all right—from he “House Divided” speech, one of Abraham Lincoln’s best-known speeches.
NICE try.”
Cloudmountain.... must be too many clouds on that mountain.... Abraham Lincoln took it fro Jesus’ response to the Pharisees when they accused Him of doing Satan’s work...
Luke 11:17
Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them: “Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall.
My apologies
I suggest the catechism.
We would say things like “ORDINARILY” necessary. Extraordinary situations make for extraordinary ... situations!
BUT, if he thinks he’s dying, but then his life is saved, while it’s not for ME to ID his destination, certainly his appreciation and understanding of IHS is defective if he does not seek the sacraments.
False opposition. Begs the question -- which is: Whether and in what way are the acts (or some of them) of the Church rightly described as the acts of God?
"For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to ...."Related questions would be about the word "Apostle", and what are we to make of this?
"... .Truly, truly, I say to you, he who receives any one whom I send receives me; and he who receives me receives him who sent me."It seems to me that there is ample evidence in Scripture to support, if not conclusively, the contention that the leaders of the Church have the gift of authoritative teaching.and
Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you."
It's all very well to say God made the canonical books canonical. Other recent threads about those who want to reject most of Paul suggest that some who call themselves Christians do not recognize God's closing the canon, with some books in and some books out.
And mine to you.
Yes, thank you. But this is about the Roman Catholic Church.
And God gave the authority to determine or recognize the Canon to the Apostles.
Yes, Peter accepted Paul's writings because Peter was the Apostle to whom the LORD Jesus Christ gave the keys to he kingdom of heaven. Peter also pointed out they were difficult to understand. Who has the authority to interpret what Paul wrote ? Peter certainly does.
Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
“Peter and his successors”
The promise is to Peter and the Church. Do you believe there are tares in the Catholic priesthood and church?
“evil of Protestantism”
It was believing on the Lord and later reading the whole Bible that drew me close to Him, and that is what Bible-believing Christianity is. And if not for it, the simple Gospel accepted by simple faith would have been lost in all the Catholic Church’s rituals and excesses. How much do you imagine was spent on “recognizing” JP II was a “saint?” Cont’d
On individual interpretations:
If someone truly accepts the Gospel as true, then if they go the Lord asking Him to show them and guide them in interpreting Scripture, then He will. James even promises wisdom if we ask. From what I see, though, the Catholic priesthood has replaced that by saying some things about the Bible need to be interpreted instead by science, which is why its official position supports evolution. Do you agree?
“Didn’t fall from the sky.”
“All Scripture is God-breathed.” HE is the only author. There is no question that it was going to turn out how He willed it to before time began.
“Jim Jones”
From what I saw on PBS about him, he one day threw the Bible on the ground in church and said to follow Him, not it. The Bible said for us to beware of false teachers. And in different ways the Catholic Church has been that, too. Cont’d
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Truth Handling and Teaching Authority
Beginning Catholic: Church Authority In Scripture [Ecumenical] Lists Every Catholic Should be Familiar With: The 3 Pillars of the Church's Authority
No. The Catholic Church is the one founded by Christ with authority to interpret Scripture by his disciples and successors. As Scripture itself says there were many things Christ said and did that were not written. Catholics get their understanding from Scripture from Scriptural text, history, traditions, ritual, and revelation. It is an unbroken Truth that will last till the end of time. David Koresh or Jim Jones, Billy Graham, Rev. Moon, or the Rev. Farrakhan have no more authority to interpret the Bible that you or I do. That authority is the exclusive prerogative of the Catholic Church. The “Rock” on which Christ’s Church is founded. The central belief of the Church is the Holy Eucharist. It is the center of the Church because it is Christ truly present in body, blood, soul, and Divinity.
Reject this belief and all else is theater and farce.
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