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To: roamer_1
... but there is no question at all which God they served.

Oh, I know that. But what they took pains to say was "Creator," not "God,". And in that, they were wise enough to cover all bases. Because at least one of them recognized that rights are not so much taken away as they are given up by those who don't feel they have the moral authority to fight for them. And of course, that is where we are now, losing rights by the leaps and bounds, because we do not fight for them. And no supernatural intervention halting the process, I notice.

No, again, Our jurist prudence is based upon the Christian Bible and the dictates of Blackstone's Law. The Judeo-Christian Ethic forms our moral code.

Yes, they based on what they knew. We excuse their views on slavery because we know they were constrained by the culture of their time and place. So we must understand that the same minds that accepted slavery would bow to some Middle Eastern religion.

But we today do not have to either condone slavery or bow toward Jerusalem or Mecca. It's a matter of choice.

449 posted on 06/26/2014 2:29:39 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady
[roamer_1:] ... but there is no question at all which God they served.

Oh, I know that. But what they took pains to say was "Creator," not "God,". And in that, they were wise enough to cover all bases.

No, in fact... I think your position shows perfectly how the fathers failed in their endeavor. You see, THAT He was not mentioned by name opens the door to moral relativism - Something which you seem to be indirectly (perhaps unintentionally) espousing, and that moral relativism is the bane of the moral absolutes engendered by the Judeo-Christian Ethic, that which was unquestionably installed to guide this nation and her people. The words on the document cannot be severed from the actions of implementation.

Because at least one of them recognized that rights are not so much taken away as they are given up by those who don't feel they have the moral authority to fight for them. And of course, that is where we are now, losing rights by the leaps and bounds, because we do not fight for them.

No, we are losing them precisely because there is no justice, and there is no justice precisely because we, as a nation, stand outside of the moral absolutes seared into our beginnings. Dividing that ethos from it's Provider necessarily removes the provision, don't you see?

"I sought for the key to the greatness of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution. Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits aflame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." -Alexis de Tocqueville

And no supernatural intervention halting the process, I notice.

It ain't over till the fat lady sings, as they say... But the way forward is not in hubris and in scoffing, but in a fervent repentance and prayer for revival:

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. -2 Chronicles 7:14

If you would yearn for the greatness and goodness of what America was, the only thing that will bring her back is to repent as a nation and return to partake of the root of her founding. Principle things are established as her foundations, and foremost among them, the inseparable pinnacle thereof, is YHWH and the salvation of Yeshua.

[roamer_1:] No, again, Our jurist prudence is based upon the Christian Bible and the dictates of Blackstone's Law. The Judeo-Christian Ethic forms our moral code.

Yes, they based on what they knew. We excuse their views on slavery because we know they were constrained by the culture of their time and place. So we must understand that the same minds that accepted slavery would bow to some Middle Eastern religion.

Your ignorance regarding YHWH and slavery is profound... And YHWH does not change. Neither do principles. They are foundational. Immovable. TRUE. Take care that 'sophia' does not cloud your judgement. 'In calling themselves wise, they became fools' (See Is 5:22+)

But we today do not have to either condone slavery or bow toward Jerusalem or Mecca. It's a matter of choice.

It has always been a matter of choice - Follow YHWH or follow the Devil - How's the way we are going working out for you? Which do you suppose we are following? In the wisdom of Bob Dylan, "You've got to serve somebody."

543 posted on 06/27/2014 12:50:24 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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