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To: GarySpFc; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; ...
This issue has often being an issue of extensive debate by both sides, and with texts which need to be reconciled.

The Lord commanded baptism, and said that

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16)

Peter both tells souls that if they will be baptized then they will receive the Spirit, (Acts 2:38) and that if souls will believe then they will be forgiven of their sins. (Acts 10:43)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)

And receiving this word, they were forgiven/born again by God's grace, and then baptized:

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (Acts 10:47)

And referring to which, Peter states,

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. (Acts 15:7-9)

Here we see that it was the faith that was expressed in baptism that appropriated the "washing of regeneration," purifying their hearts by faith. Which Titus 3:5 says is "not of works."

Rome herself at least allows as an exception this prebaptismal regeneration:

If the contrition be perfect (contritio caritate perfecta), then active justification results, that is, the soul is immediately placed in the state of grace even before the reception of the sacrament of baptism or penance, though not without the desire for the sacrament (votum sacramenti) — Catholic Encyclopedia> Sanctifying Grace

Yet Peter does not treat this as an exception, but as the basis for NT salvation, and is his theological explanation of conversion, and which interprets Mk. 16:16 and Acts 2:38.

For as the Lord said in John,

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24)

Which is that purification of hearts is by faith, the faith that confesses the Lord Jesus baptism, and which confession confirms one is a believer, as faith is manifest by what/who it obeys. It can even be the occasion for conversion, as a catalyst used by God to induce one to believe, with the faith true baptism both requires and expresses.

And as this confession testifies to faith, thus the promise, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:16) As well as that of Acts 2:38.

To which the words of Paul conflate:

That if thou shalt with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man unto righteousness; and with the mouth is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.(Romans 10:9-11)

For whosoever shall

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Romans 10:13) Yet confession by moving one's neurons and tongue is no less a work then moving one'' legs to be baptized, though both are motivated and enabled by God. Baptism is a "sinner's prayer" in body language, and is far more substantial than mere words.

But while any volitional response by man is a work, the "not of works" exclusion does not mean that man is a passive party in conversion, as if he were comatose or morally incognizant (though in election itself man essentially may be said to be), but that man choosing (under Divine motivation and enablement) is not a work of merit, but even the assent of faith is a work of God,

Who draws souls, (Jn. 6:44; 12:32) , opens hearts, (Acts 16:14) and grants repentance, (Acts 11:18) and gives faith, (Eph. 2:8,9) so that in conversion man does what he otherwise would not and could not do.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (Romans 3:27-28) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:5)

But going back to Rm. 10:9,10, does believing in the heart justify one or the confession of that faith? The word for "unto," "eis" is the same one used in "believeth righteousness," and " confession is made salvation," as well "the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him," (v. 12) and can mean everything from "into" and "toward" to "concerning" (such as Rm. 16:19) and "against."

The sense of "concerning" that seems to best fit in this case, as we see that hearts are purified by faith in the washing of the regenerative event before baptism, and that "with the heart that man believeth unto righteousness," and that the same apostle states, "what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." (Romans 4:3; cf. Gn. 15:6)

Moreover, if manifest confession is essential then it disallows death bed conversions.

Thus, since souls realized the washing of regeneration by faith, (Acts 10:43; 15:9) passing from death unto life by believing, (Jn. 5:24) and the heart-faith is counted for righteousness, (Rm. 4:3-6), "believing unto justification, (Rm. 10:9) then the most warranted conclusion that reconciles the texts is that it is the kind of faith that confesses the Lord Jesus in trusting Him to save the contrite damned + destitute sinner by His blood and righteousness, is that which appropriates justification. And at this point the person is in Christ, baptized by the Spirit into the body, (1Cor. 12:13) having been washed, sanctified and justified. (1Cor. 6:11)

Yet "confession is made unto salvation," as concerns salvation, since it is by the manifest effects of faith that we know it exists and that one is saved. A believer is known by who he obeys. And thus while Abraham was justified by faith being counted for righteousness, he is also said to be justified by the working out of that faith, in the sense of justification which justifies him as having salvific faith. And which kind of faith is what James refers to, as the only definition of saving faith is the faith that effects obedience = "works."

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (James 2:14) Paul is dealing with the positional, in which faith is counted for righteousness in Gn. 15:6, not the good works of faith which Abraham had already accomplished, by which one is made accepted in the Beloved.

James is dealing with the practical, in which the faith that is salvific is the one that does works, in arguing against inert faith that does not effect the obedience of faith. If he is referring to justification in the same sense as Genesis and Paul, then we have a contradiction, since the latter two clearly state that Abraham was justified in Gn. 15 by faith being counted for righteousness, while James states,

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?..Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. (James 2:21,24)

A key word here is "how," in the sense of justification as regards being a true believers versus false, which is what Jame arguing against. As true faith in the risen Lord Jesus effects obedience toward its Object by the regenerated who has a relationship with Him, thus to believe is to obey, and thus how a believer is justified as being saved is by works of faith, as faith testifies to him being a true believer.

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. (Hebrews 6:9)

And thus "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned," (Mark 16:16) "For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (Romans 2:13) For while "with the heart man believeth unto righteousness," the one who confesses the Lord Jesus on obedience testifies that he has faith, and will be saved, thus with the mouth [and baptism, etc,.] confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10:10)

And which faith is thus judged by its works, which manifests the believer is fit to be rewarded, (Mt. 25:31-40; Rv. 2:7,11, 17,26; 3:5,11,21; 21:7)) even being called "worthy" (Rv. 3:4), which is under the rubric of God's covenantal grace and faithfulness to souls who apart from justification by faith on Christ's account, really deserve eternal damnation for their sins. (Rm. 6:23)

This i see as best reconciling both sides of the texts. See here and here for similar recent examinations by God's grace.

Note also it was not due to Abraham's own inner holiness that Abraham was counted for righteousness, as per Roman regeneration, but "Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." (Romans 4:3)

Note also that contrary to the RC strawman of sola fide, it neither leaves the sinner merely white washed with only a legal holiness, for indeed justification is part of the event of the washing of regeneration, nor does it refer to a faith being salvific which does not effect works (given opportunity). But neither regeneration or works that flow from it are what justifies one in conversion, by faith is imputed for righteousness, for indeed, "to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the unGodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." (Romans 4:5)

But as the faith in the Lord Jesus that saves is one that characteristically follows the Lord, (Jn. 1:27,28) thus, like James, Reformers preached the inseparable nature of faith and works:

>This is what I have often said, if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit. If the tree is green and good, it will not cease to blossom forth in leaves and fruit. It does this by nature. I need not first command it and say: Look here, tree, bear apples. For if the tree is there and is good, the fruit will follow unbidden. If faith is present works must follow.” [Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:340-341]

>“We must therefore most certainly maintain that where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith where there are no good works. Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both.” [Martin Luther, as cited by Paul Althaus, The Theology of Martin Luther [Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1963], 246, footnote 99]

More .

10 posted on 06/27/2014 4:42:44 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.(Romans 10:9-11)

Asking your pardon, the passage quoted in your comment is corrected by adding the bolded words above, if it is from the KJV.

Here again is a situation in which the presence of the multifunctional preposition εις invites us to a use infrequent, but not unusual which both doctrine and context demand. That use is the foundational use, meaning "on the basis of" and put to work in Rom. 10:10, makes perfect sense.

"For with the heart He/she is constantly/persistently believing with a view toward becoming righteous (?)"

No, this is not possible. Though saved, one is still very capable of unrighteous activity, and does so. This is not a correct exegesis.

"For with the heart He/she is constantly/persistently believing on the basis of righteousness (?)"

Whose righteousness? His? or mine? (Not mine, I hope.) Having heard of, seen, and experienced the Righteousness of Christ, thus we can persistently commit trust in Him on the basis of His Righteousness; and as a consequence of our belief, His Righteousness is imputed to us, as it was to Abraham.

By this belief we can then rely on the truth that He was raised from the dead ones for our justification; i. e., be declared free of guilt.

Yes! That sounds contextually correct and experientially acceptable!

=========

". . . and with the mouth outwardly confession is made with a view toward gaining one's salvation (?)"

Now, that interpretation seems to say that God will eventually save me if I lustily proclaim Jesus as Lord. That sort of sounds like I my just echoing what God says about Jesus will earn a final positive reward. Hmmmm. Well, some do think this, but that does not sound like good hermeneutics to me. But:

". . . and with the mouth outwardly agreeing with God is made in the basis of the salvation already received (?)"

Well, yes. In other words, how can I say that Jesus is Lord if He hasn't already freed me to choose Him, rather than Satan, as my Lord and Redeemer, and am "working out my salvation with fear and trembling"?

That foundational use of eis puts things in the correct perspective.

Of course, I cannot be ashamed of Christ if I did all the sinning and He did all the saving --- eh?

=========

Furthermore, one should not contemplate explaining verses 9 and 10 without first thoroughly accounting for the doctrine embodied in verse 8, whose thought is preliminary to, and inseparably connected with, the verses 9 and 10 (but verse 8 negligently omitted by most preachers):

"But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; . . ." (Rom 10:8 AV) Now, what is the "it" in this verse? "It" is the righteousness which is of faith that speaketh. It says:

The Spoken Word (of God) is at hand, even in thy mouth (ready to be spoken by you, you regenerated disciple of The Christ), and in your heart (through hearing, reading, memorization, meditation, and studious fidelity)"; that is, The Sayings of The Faith (the basic universally held articles known and able to be articulated by the disciple who has made his/her commitment to Christ after counting the cost), which we (Paul and his fellow evangelists) proclaim as heralds; that if you knowledgeably in utter faith agree Jesus! Lord! and believe in your heart that God roused him from the dead ones, you shall be saved.

(When? Now? Later? As I was? or -- all of those?) Clearly, it is a continuation into the future of the standing which we have in our current state as correctible children of God.

12 posted on 06/27/2014 10:54:44 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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