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To: BlatherNaut
And the assembled fathers began to laugh, and then to cheer...
134 posted on 07/06/2014 11:31:40 AM PDT by ebb tide (And the assembled fathers began to laugh, and then to cheer...)
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To: ebb tide
And the assembled fathers began to laugh, and then to cheer...

Disgusting. Was that from Fr. Wiltgen's book? I have it in my tbr pile.

The following excerpt also refers to the ambiguities in the V II documents. I see that it was the Franciscans of the Immaculate who translated Monsignor Gherardini's study, in which he expresses his opinion that an "authoritative clarification of the troublesome ambiguities in the wording of the documents of the Second Vatican Council is urgently needed". His praise of VII would seem to indicate that he is not a traditionalist.

Ralph Martin (a charismatic, IIRC) has also published a book "Will Many Be Saved?" He essentially argues that according to LG, the conditions under which the non-evangelized can be saved are often not fulfilled.

Clearly even non-traditionalists are now starting to open their eyes to the source of the apostasy which has been unleashed post-VII.

---------------

"On March 25 of last year, Monsignor Gherardini brought out a critical appraisal of the documents of the Second Vatican Council and of their implementation (Brunero Gherardini, Concilio Ecumenico Vaticano II: Un discorso da fare), which has now been translated into English by the Franciscans of the Immaculate under the title of The Ecumenical Vatican Council II: A Much Needed Discussion (Casa Mariana Editrice, Via Piano della Croce 6, Frigento [AV] Italy 83040). All of the following page references are to this English edition.

While acknowledging the many good effects of the Council, Msgr. Gherardini asks whether its pastoral purpose has been realized, in view of the ”tainted philosophies” that have flourished in its wake within the Church. He observes that the openings toward the spirit of this world recommended by the documents of the Council have not been kept within prudent limits in the aftermath. Instead, a “progressivist” interpretation of the Council documents has had full sway and a liberal hermeneutic based ambiguously on the heresy of Modernism condemned by Pope Pius X, leading to the “silent apostasy” (Pope Paul VI) that now exists within the Church.

Msgr. Gherardini treats at length a fundamental question regarding the nature of the Second Vatican Council. At its opening on October 11, 1962, it was characterized by Pope John XXIII as a “pastoral council” at which new dogmatic definitions were not to be sought, but rather it “would concentrate its forces upon the effort to make Christ present to contemporary man, to his mentality, to the culture of the new times” (words of Gherardini, p. 42). And so, to this day it is not clear whether any of the teachings proper to this council has dogmatic force. When an ecumenical council presents itself under the category of pastoral, he points out, “deliberately qualifying itself as being pastoral in character, then it excludes in this fashion any intent of a defining nature” (p. 29). Gherardini notes that the question of interpreting statements of the Council as dogmatic or pastoral was treated by the General Secretariat of the Council, which declared to the Assembly that “the text will always have to be interpreted in the light of the general rules known to everyone” (p. 56), and also that the mind of the Council “is made manifest both by the doctrine treated and by the tone of the verbal expression” (p. 58). Gherardini concludes that the teachings that are proper to the Second Vatican Council “cannot be considered dogmatic” because they lack the required form for defining truths (p. 59)...."

http://www.rtforum.org/lt/lt148.html

135 posted on 07/06/2014 12:25:12 PM PDT by BlatherNaut
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