Posted on 07/21/2014 10:28:13 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
I appreciate the article as it says in easy-to-understand words what is a central tenet of Christianity - that we CAN trust the Scriptures to be our rule of faith. Thank you.
I have a question, which is not rhetorical but honest: is any of the Apocrypha ever part of the weekly lectionary in the RC or various Orthodox churches?
After several decades in God's Word, I am certain most of those "difficulties" have been introduced by man, meaning primarily religious tradition. If you rightly divide the Word as Paul directs Timothy (2 Timothy 2:15), those difficulties will disappear - I've watched many a sacred cow of my own fade away in the light of God's Truth. (Psalm 119:130)
The biggest challenge for any Believer is being prepared to reevaluate and dump all the religious hooey pushed through the centuries that contradicts the Word, and with a pure heart approach God's Word with a desire for Truth. You must believe that the Holy Spirit will reveal the Word as you continually consume and believe it. This requires digging into the original languages, and understanding its figurative use by the culture of that time. You cannot know Jesus apart from His Word. They are one and the same.
The good news is that the accumulated knowledge of our generation, our easy access to it through available technology, has completely changed the way one can study God's Word. Even a child can instantly research a verse, passage, or even a single word in its original language, compare it to every other use, and with the help of the Holy Spirit, know the true meaning and application of any passage, verse, or word in the Bible. Its a good time to be a Believer. No longer are you captive to religion that will pervert and manipulate God's Word. The Truth sets you FREE from religious bondage. (John 8:31-32) When religion questions God's Word, "Did God really say?" You can answer confidently with the words of Jesus, "It is written."
However, if you cling to your your religion more than you love God's Truth, the Bible will be of little use, and there will be a whole lot of "difficulties" in your path.
yes, and has been for almost 2,000 years. what you call the “apocrypha” were in the Greek Septuagint, which was the Bible used by St Paul and all the other Apostles. We have no record from their writings nor in Sacred Tradition that these books were not accepted as Scripture. If the Bible only contains 66 books, this means that no one had the correct Bible for the first 1,500 years of Church History and the same men used by the Holy Spirit to compile the 27 book NT, somehow got the OT canon wrong. if that is possible, who is to say that they didn’t get the NT wrong as well. see how dangerous this thinking is?
one more point, those who defend the 39 book OT canon point to the Jews and say it is the canon they accept. true enough, but these are the same Jews that Jesus declared to be spiritually blind. He promised the Holy Spirit would be given to believers and lead them to all truth. So the Church, guided by the promised Holy Spirit, was able to determine Scripture from non-Scripture. I believe our God is great enough and powerful enough to make sure His people have the correct Scriptures, not be wrong for 1,500 years. Hopefully you agree.
“Those who take themselves out of “Catholic,” take themselves out of the Canon.”
Who took themselves out? Your Pope got together with the churches that still agreed with him and voted the rest out.
“You might want to consider the first 1500 years. Did the Holy Spirit abandon the Christian people for 1500 years, just to pop in again in the 16th century and reveal: “You got the canon wrong”?
And as for those who had split from “Catholic,” who exactly gave them the authority to subtract books from the Canon? Some king?”
Nope, those books were never in the canon of inspired literature before the Reformation, so there was nothing to be subtracted.
“Or, instead of 1500 years, switch your focus to 2,000 years. The big majority of Christians still have the full canon -— 73 books. There has been a Christian church in continuous existence for 1900 years in Mosul, Iraq. They speak Aramaic, the language of Jesus. They have the same canon as the rest of us Catholics.”
The church has been in continuous existence, but I highly doubt they have been using that canon of 73 books for 2000 years. Like most churches in the East, they probably had their own canon until it got standardized much later. For example, when the Portuguese re-established contact with the Syro-Malabar church in the 1500s, they had to burn all their Bibles because their canon was not in line with Rome’s. We could also go back further than 2000 years, since we are talking about pre-Christian writings. Of course then we would learn that these books were never considered part of the Hebrew canon, so that wouldn’t be very convenient for the narrative you have constructed.
This isn’t that hard, y’all:
2 Timothy 3:16-17 New International Version (NIV)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
And to those who think that any human source is equal to it:
Revelation 22:18-19 New International Version (NIV)
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
can you name anyone using a 66 book bible prior to 16th century?
when Calvin and Luther first picked up a Bible, how many books were in the Bible they were reading?
can you tell me who you believe thinks any human source is equal to Scripture? anyone?
does any human or group of humans have the authority to declare the definitive canon of Scripture?
if yes, please name him/her/them and how they received this authority.
if no, isn’t everyone then free to decide for themselves what is Scripture and what isn’t?
CARM=Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry.
apologetics - explaining doctrine
research — turn to Jesus Christ.
“can you name anyone using a 66 book bible prior to 16th century?”
Well, the Protestants of the 16th century weren’t using a “66 book bible” either, so what does that prove?
“when Calvin and Luther first picked up a Bible, how many books were in the Bible they were reading?”
Well, that depends on which version of the Bible they picked up. You do know that there were multiple versions, even before the Protestants came along, don’t you?
I have a question, which is not rhetorical but honest: is any of the Apocrypha ever part of the weekly lectionary in the RC or various Orthodox churches?
Yes. For example, yesterday’s (Sunday, July 20, 2014) first Reading at Mass was Wisdom 12.13, 16-19.
RE: one more point, those who defend the 39 book OT canon point to the Jews and say it is the canon they accept. true enough, but these are the same Jews that Jesus declared to be spiritually blind.
I’ mot sure we can use this as proof that the Jewish leaders of Jesus’ time (i.e. the Pharisees ) were using the wrong scripture or Canon.
Jesus DID tell the people to LISTEN to the teachings of the Pharisees, not to follow their hypocritical ways.
MATTHEW 23:1-3
“The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, so DO and OBSERVE WHATEVER THEY TELL YOU, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.”
please read Acts 5:21-32. Once the Church was established and the Holy Spirit poured out, the seat of Moses ceased to exist. Actually, the seat of Moses was a type of the Church.
Hopefully you would not follow the present day Pharisees if they commanded you not to believe in Jesus Christ.
Well, the Protestants of the 16th century weren’t using a “66 book bible” either, so what does that prove
it proves to me that some believe God is the author of confusion, I don’t place myself in that camp.
the Muslims must be laughing their butt off when some say the Christians were using the wrong Bible for 1,500 years.
We’re not talking about belief in Jesus Christ here, we’re talking about the Apocrypha and whether it should be part of the Canon of scripture or not.
Acts 5:21-32 has nothing to do with that issue.
The seven books ARE part of the Canon of Scripture.
Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. (Psalm 119:11)
RE: The seven books ARE part of the Canon of Scripture.
The question then becomes... why was in considered scripture by the Jews?
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