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To: af_vet_1981; xone
Sorry af_vet, as a Catholic and a history-lover, I reject any simplified clubbing together of Luther and Hitler

Luther hated those who did not agree to his theological ways. He railed against those who followed Judaism who were not convinced by his teachings to become Christian. He railed against Catholics and against followers of Zwingli etc for the same reason

But Luther did not hate the Jew who converted. he did not have any racial hatred

hitler on the other hand had (false) race theories that meant that even one drop of Jewish blood made you hate-worthy.

QUITE different.

The Nazi's "racial purity" laws were insane -- he promoted "Aryans" but slaughtered gypsies and Poles. He took Luther's diatribe against a religious group that would not convert to Luther's ways and made it about a race.

Luther would be appalled at Hitler and write diatribes against him and the Nutzis I bet.

995 posted on 08/01/2014 12:42:08 AM PDT by Cronos (ObamaÂ’s dislike of Assad is not based on AssadÂ’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Cronos; af_vet_1981; xone
Sorry af_vet, as a Catholic and a history-lover, I reject any simplified clubbing together of Luther and Hitler

Oddly enough, Cronos, we are in agreement (will wonders never cease?). Especially since Hitler truly espoused a sort of occult neo-paganism at the heart - He paid homage to the Lutherans (and the Roman church) because he had to politically - there is no doubt that such was a marriage of convenience.

997 posted on 08/01/2014 1:13:28 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: Cronos
Sorry af_vet, as a Catholic and a history-lover, I reject any simplified clubbing together of Luther and Hitler Luther hated those who did not agree to his theological ways. He railed against those who followed Judaism who were not convinced by his teachings to become Christian. He railed against Catholics and against followers of Zwingli etc for the same reason But Luther did not hate the Jew who converted. he did not have any racial hatred hitler on the other hand had (false) race theories that meant that even one drop of Jewish blood made you hate-worthy. QUITE different. The Nazi's "racial purity" laws were insane -- he promoted "Aryans" but slaughtered gypsies and Poles. He took Luther's diatribe against a religious group that would not convert to Luther's ways and made it about a race. Luther would be appalled at Hitler and write diatribes against him and the Nutzis I bet.

QUOTES FROM HITLER’S HENCHMEN AND NAZI SYMPATHIZERS Compiled by Jim Walker

Hermann Göring (Reden und Aufsatze, Munich, 1938)

Although he himself [Hitler] was a Catholic, he wished the Protestant Church to have a stronger position in Germany, since Germany was two-thirds Protestant.

Hermann Göring (Trial of The Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 1945, Vol.9)

The Führer wanted to achieve the unification of the Protestant Evangelical Churches by appointing a Reich Bishop, so that there would be a high Protestant church dignitary as well as a high Catholic church dignitary.

Hermann Göring (Trial of The Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 1945, Vol.9)

With the Catholic Church the Führer ordered a concordat to be concluded by Herr Von Papen. Shortly before that agreement was concluded by Herr Von Papen I visited the Pope myself. I had numerous connections with the higher Catholic clergy because of my Catholic mother, and thus ― I am myself a Protestant ― I had a view of both camps.

Hermann Göring (Trial of The Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 1945, Vol.9)

I myself am not what you might call a churchgoer, but I have gone now and then, and have always considered I belonged to the Church and have always had those functions over which the Church presides ― marriage, christening, burial, et cetera ― carried out in my house by the Church.

Hermann Göring (Trial of The Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 1945, Vol.9)


...

(The mass murderer Himmler got brought up as a devout Catholic, like young Hitler, and was careful to attend mass regularly.)

Rudolf Hoess

In his Nuremberg cell, Rudolf Hoess told psychologist G.M. Gilbert how he got brought up in a rigorous Catholic tradition:

My father was really a bigot. He was very strict and fanatical. I learned that my father took a religious oath at the time of the birth of my younger sister, dedicating me to God and the priesthood, and after that leading a Joseph married life [celibacy]. He directed my entire youthful education toward the goal of making me a priest. I had to pray and go to church endlessly, do penance over the slightest misdeed ― praying as punishment for any little unkindness to my sister, or something like that.

Rudolf Hoess (“Hitler’s Elite, Shocking Profiles of the Reich’s Most Notorious Henchmen,” Berkley Books, 1990)

When asked if his father ever beat him, Hoess replied that he was only punished by prayer:

The thing that made me so stubborn and probably made me later on cut off from people was his way of making me feel that I had wronged him personally, and that, since I was spiritually a minor, he was responsible to God for my sins.

Rudolf Hoess (“Hitler’s Elite, Shocking Profiles of the Reich’s Most Notorious Henchmen,” Berkley Books, 1990)

Joseph Goebbels

The pious Catholic parents of Joseph Goebbels raised him and his two brothers in that faith. He spoke of Hitler as “either Christ or St. John.” “Hitler, I love you!” he wrote in his diary.

A Jew is for me an object of disgust. I feel like vomiting when I see one. Christ could not possibly have been a Jew. It is not necessary to prove that scientifically ― it is a fact.

Julius Streicher

Julius Streicher, the ninth child of a Roman Catholic primary school teacher, also became a school teacher in Nuremberg. He was publisher, editor and a writer for the German newspaper Der Stürmer.

After Hitler’s release from prison in December 1924, Streicher hailed Hitler’s return to politics as a “gift of God,” a judgment the Fuehrer never forgot.

Streicher held an enthusiasm about allegations that the Jews murdered non-Jews in order to obtain blood for the feast of Passover. He charged that Jews hated Christianity and mankind in general. Streicher went to grotesque lengths in his attacks on Jews claiming the discovery that “Christ was not a Jew but an Aryan.”

If the danger of the reproduction of that curse of God in the Jewish blood is finally to come to an end, then there is only one way ― the extermination of that people whose father is the devil...

Julius Streicher paraphrasing John 8:44 as his justification for extermination (Trial of The Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 1945, Vol. 12)

Only the Jews, he shouted, had remained victorious after the dreadful days of World War I. These were the people, he charged, of whom Christ said, “Its father is the devil.”

Julius Streicher [See John 8:44, for Christ’s accusation of father the devil], (“Hitler’s Elite, Shocking Profiles of the Reich’s Most Notorious Henchmen,” Berkley Books, 1990)

Germans must fight Jews, that organized body of world criminals against whom Christ, the greatest anti-Semite of all time, had fought.

Julius Streicher (“Hitler’s Elite, Shocking Profiles of the Reich’s Most Notorious Henchmen,” Berkley Books, 1990)

During the Nuremberg trials, Streicher was asked about his participation in the Nuremberg Race laws of 1935. He responded:

Yes, I believe I had a part in it insofar as for years I have written that any further mixture of German blood with Jewish blood must be avoided. I have written such articles again and again; and in my articles I have repeatedly emphasized the fact that the Jews should serve as an example to every race, for they created the racial law for themselves ― the law of Moses, which says, “If you come into a foreign land you shall not take unto yourself foreign women.” And that, Gentlemen, is of tremendous importance in judging the Nuremberg Laws.. These laws of the Jews were taken as a model for these laws. When after centuries, the Jewish lawgiver Ezra demonstrated that notwithstanding many Jews had married non-Jewish women, these marriages were dissolved. That was the beginning of Jewry which, because it introduced these racial laws, has survived throughout the centuries, while all other races and civilizations have perished.

Julius Streicher, (Trial of The Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 1945, Vol. 12)

[Note, although Streicher had a part in the race laws, Hitler outlined his religious justification for the race laws in his private notes before he came into power.

When asked if there were any other anti-Semitic publications, other than Der Stürmer, published in Germany, Streicher replied:

Anti-Semitic publications have existed in Germany for centuries. A book I had, written by Dr. Martin Luther, was, for instance, confiscated. Dr. Martin Luther would very probably sit in my place in the defendants’ dock today, if this book had been taken into consideration by the Prosecution. In this book The Jews and Their Lies, Dr. Martin Luther writes that the Jews are a serpent’s brood and one should burn down their synagogues and destroy them...

Julius Streicher, (Trial of The Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, 1945, Vol. 12)

What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? Since they live among us, we dare not tolerate their conduct, now that we are aware of their lying and reviling and blaspheming. If we do, we become sharers in their lies, cursing and blasphemy. Thus we cannot extinguish the unquenchable fire of divine wrath, of which the prophets speak, nor can we convert the Jews. With prayer and the fear of God we must practice a sharp mercy to see whether we might save at least a few from the glowing flames. We dare not avenge ourselves. Vengeance a thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the throat. I shall give you my sincere advice: First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly ­ and I myself was unaware of it ­ will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know. Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God. Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remainder omitted) Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy 17 [:10 ff.]) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Those villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew 16 {:18], "You are Peter," etc, inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the right to teach. Fifth, I advise that safe­conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they stay at home. (...remainder omitted). Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us all they possess. Such money should now be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God's blessing in a good and worthy cause. Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen 3[:19]}. For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants. * * * But what will happen even if we do burn down the Jews' synagogues and forbid them publicly to praise God, to pray, to teach, to utter God's name? They will still keep doing it in secret. If we know that they are doing this in secret, it is the same as if they were doing it publicly. for our knowledge of their secret doings and our toleration of them implies that they are not secret after all and thus our conscience is encumbered with it before God. * * * Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death. My advice, as I said earlier, is: First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss in sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire. That would demonstrate to God our serious resolve and be evidence to all the world that it was in ignorance that we tolerated such houses, in which the Jews have reviled God, our dear Creator and Father, and his Son most shamefully up till now but that we have now given them their due reward. * * * I wish and I ask that our rulers who have Jewish subjects exercise a sharp mercy toward these wretched people, as suggested above, to see whether this might not help (though it is doubtful). They must act like a good physician who, when gangrene has set in, proceeds without mercy to cut, saw, and burn flesh, veins, bone, and marrow. Such a procedure must also be followed in this instance. Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them, as Moses did in the wilderness, slaying three thousand lest the whole people perish. They surely do not know what they are doing; moreover, as people possessed, they do not wish to know it, hear it, or learn it. There it would be wrong to be merciful and confirm them in their conduct. If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs, so that we do not become partakers of their abominable blasphemy and all their other vices and thus merit God's wrath and be damned with them. I have done my duty. Now let everyone see to his. I am exonerated. "
... "I brief, dear princes and lords, those of you who have Jews under your rule­­ if my counsel does not please your, find better advice, so that you and we all can be rid of the unbearable, devilish burden of the Jews, lest we become guilty sharers before God in the lies, blasphemy, the defamation, and the curses which the mad Jews indulge in so freely and wantonly against the person of our Lord Jesus Christ, this dear mother, all Christians, all authority, and ourselves. Do not grant them protection, safe­conduct, or communion with us.... .With this faithful counsel and warning I wish to cleanse and exonerate my conscience. * * * Let the government deal with them in this respect, as I have suggested. But whether the government acts or not, let everyone at least be guided by his own conscience and form for himself a definition or image of a Jew."

1,001 posted on 08/01/2014 5:24:56 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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