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To: Springfield Reformer

you need to see the Pew survey of religion:

read this for attendance:

http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/comparison-Frequency%20of%20Attendance%20at%20Religious%20Services.pdf

plus you need to ask protestants other than your own circle whether they stay home an ‘church themselves’ - when they get all put-off and huffy you will know that is what they do

Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam


102 posted on 08/15/2014 7:23:22 AM PDT by LurkingSince'98 (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam = FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF GODs)
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To: LurkingSince'98
I honestly don't get where you're coming from on this. Take another look at that Pew chart:

http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/comparison-Frequency%20of%20Attendance%20at%20Religious%20Services.pdf

The number of evangelicals (which I assume includes conservative Baptists among others), the number of self-identified evangelicals who never ever go to church is 4%. Now that's 4% too high.

But if your intent is to get some favorable comparison for Catholics, you can't get there with this survey because the number of self-identified Catholics who never ever go to church is 6%.  So it seems, if your reasoning applies equally to both, that would mean there were more "self-churching" Catholics that there are "self-churching" evangelicals. So explain to me again how this helps your case?

And here's another study which corroborates the superior attendance habits of Baptists, evangelicals, and even Mormons over Catholic attendance habits:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/22414/mormons-evangelical-protestants-baptists-top-church-attendance-list.aspx

In this one, baptists are separated out for special attention, and while we don't make the top of the chart, clearly we are ahead of the Catholics on this:

Gallup church attendance bar chart

But see how the Mormons are ahead of us both.  And the Jehovah's Witnesses do pretty well too, in that Pew poll of yours. So what does that mean? Are they better off for their more frequent attendance? Not if they are sitting under false teaching.  But those who do belong to Christ must be in fellowship.  It's not optional.  The fact that some do it for the wrong reason shouldn't stop believers from doing it for the right reason.

So that's why I don't get where you're coming from.  Apparently we both have "self-churchers" in our respective denominations, and yours more than mine. But it's downright silly to use that as an argument for or against a given body of truth. It's true or its false, even if large numbers of a group's professed adherents are screwing it up. It's just not a good basis for determining divine truth. Like Paul says, let God be true, and every man a liar.

But if I were looking for signs of the true "ecclesia" of Jesus, the one He said would never fail, I would look to the one sign Jesus explicitly gave as the true marker of His people:
John 13:34-35  A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.  (35)  By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Which is why I do not understand how some of these FR religious debates devolve so rapidly into bitter personal sniping, which is the opposite of love. Not talking about you and me. But we both know it's true. It breaks my heart.

Peace,

SR



104 posted on 08/16/2014 1:00:58 AM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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