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To: Boogieman
Have you read the second half of what Pope Pius II said? It's usually not reported. Have you read about Alexander's response?

Yes, Alexander cared for his family. In a country filled with anti-Spanish sentiment, he could depend on few people. His uncle, Pope Calixtus III, acted similarly there.

Also, you have no definitive evidence of him "[buying] his way into the papacy". Stop with the libel.

I'll try to remember to send you a copy of the book, when it comes out later this year.
92 posted on 08/14/2014 6:02:51 PM PDT by matthewrobertolson
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To: matthewrobertolson

“Have you read the second half of what Pope Pius II said?”

Well, here’s the text of the letter, what exactly do you see in it that is exonerating?

“Dear Son: We have learned that your Worthiness, forgetful of the high office with which you are invested, was present from the seventeenth to the twenty-second hour, four days ago, in the gardens of John de Bichis, where there were several women of Siena, women wholly given over to worldly vanities. Your companion was one of your colleagues whom his years, if not the dignity of his office, ought to have reminded of his duty. We have heard the dance was indulged in all wantonness; none of the allurements of love were lacking, and you conducted yourself in a wholly worldly manner. Shame forbids mention of all that took place, for not only the things themselves but their very names are unworthy of your rank. In order that your lust might be all the more unrestrained, the husbands, fathers, brothers and kinsmen of the young women and girls were not invited to be present. You and a few servants were the leaders and inspirers of the orgy. It is said that nothing is now talked of in Siena but your vanity, which is the subject of universal ridicule. Certain it is that here at the baths, where Churchmen and the laity are very numerous, your name is on every one’s tongue. Our displeasure is beyond words, for your conduct has brought the holy state and office into disgrace; the people will say that they make us rich and great, not that we may live a blameless life, but that we may have means to gratify our passions. This is the reason the princes and the powers dispose us and the chancellor of the Church, and what renders your conduct all the more reprehensible is the fact that you have a seat among the cardinals, with the Pope, as advisers of the Holy See. We leave it to you whether it is becoming to your dignity to court young women, and to send the laity to mock us; this is why our own mode of living is thrown in our face when we reprove others. Contempt is the lot of Christ’s vicar because he seems to tolerate these actions. You, dear son, have charge of the bishopric of Valencia, the most important in Spain; you are one of those whom love fruits and wine, and during the whole day to give no thought to anything but sensual pleasures. People blame us on your account, and the memory of your blessed uncle, Calixtus, likewise suffers, and many say he did wrong in heaping honors upon you. If you try to excuse yourself on the ground of your youth, I say to you; you are no longer so young as not to see what duties your offices impose upon you. A Cardinal should be above reproach and an example of right living before the eyes of all men, and then we should have just grounds for anger when temporal princes bestow uncomplimentary epithets upon us; when they dispute with us the possession of our property and force us to submit ourselves to their will. Of a truth we inflict these wounds upon ourselves, and we ourselves are the cause of these troubles, since we by our conduct are daily diminishing the authority of the Church. Our punishment for it in this world is dishonor, and in the world to come well deserved torment. May, therefore, your good sense place a restraint on these frivolities, and may you never lose sight of your dignity; then people will not call you a vain gallant among men. If this occurs again we shall be compelled to show that it was contrary to our exhortation, and that it caused us great pain; and our censure will not pass over you without causing you a blush. We have always loved you and thought you worthy of our protection as a man of an earnest and modest character. Therefore, conduct yourself henceforth so that we may retain this our opinion of you, and may behold in you only the example of a well ordered life. Your years, which are not such as to preclude improvement, permit us to admonish you paternally.”

“Have you read about Alexander’s response?”

I have not.

“Yes, Alexander cared for his family. In a country filled with anti-Spanish sentiment, he could depend on few people. His uncle, Pope Calixtus III, acted similarly there.”

Ah, the “everybody else did it” defense. Not impressed.

“Also, you have no definitive evidence of him “[buying] his way into the papacy”. Stop with the libel.”

Even the Catholic Encyclopedia admits it is probable, and though of course not provable at this point, it was the general opinion of the time. Speaking of which, when the Catholic Encyclopedia admits that “Even after his ordination to the priesthood, in 1468, he continued his evil ways.” and “Alexander continued as Pope the manner of life that had disgraced his cardinalate”, your apologetics for the man seem especially futile.

“I’ll try to remember to send you a copy of the book, when it comes out later this year.”

Save it. When you try to deny that the man had more than one mistress, when he had several children by other mistresses, I have no expectation that your research skills or veracity would make for fruitful reading.


93 posted on 08/14/2014 6:41:08 PM PDT by Boogieman
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