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To: daniel1212; Salvation

The old Saint Peter vs. Saint Paul dispute. It is like these FR Fundie Protestants think they have found the gotcha moment when in fact, great theologians 1,600 years ago dealt with these same scripture passages yet somehow they don’t agree with FR Protestant Fundie bible-thumper theology. Now why is that the case. Here is Saint Jerome’s Letter to Saint Augustine, Number 112. The CCL site for some reason does not have this letter translated, although it does have an introduction describing the discussion between these 2 over this question. I have provided the entire Letter 112 and a summary of it from a Catholic site which gives the readers digest version. Regardless, Saint Jerome and Saint Augustine’s discussion is 100% in disagreement with said “FR protestant pope daniel1212” and the other FR protestant popes in this thread.

http://newadvent.org/fathers/1102075.htm

http://www.defendingthebride.com/ch/pa/gatatians.html


101 posted on 08/24/2014 8:25:43 PM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: CTrent1564
Here is Saint Jerome’s Letter to Saint Augustine, Number 112.

Now HERE's a fella that MUST like St. Augustine!!

146 posted on 08/25/2014 2:56:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: CTrent1564; daniel1212
Is name calling the best you can do to support your position? Then it's pretty weak.

But Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles, while Peter is the apostle to the Jews.

It's stated MANY times in the God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired Scripture.

Or perhaps you are going to tell us that Paul was wrong?

Acts 9:15-16 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.”

Acts 13:46-48 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’” And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 14:27 And when they (Paul and Barnabas) arrived and gathered the church together, they declared all that God had done with them, and how he had opened a door of faith to the Gentiles.

Acts 15:22-26 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter: “The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 22:19-21 And I said, ‘Lord, they themselves know that in one synagogue after another I imprisoned and beat those who believed in you. And when the blood of Stephen your witness was being shed, I myself was standing by and approving and watching over the garments of those who killed him.’ And he said to me, ‘Go, for I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’”

Acts 23:11 The following night the Lord stood by him (Paul) and said, “Take courage, for as you have testified to the facts about me in Jerusalem, so you must testify also in Rome.”

Acts 26:12-18 “In this connection I journeyed to Damascus with the authority and commission of the chief priests. At midday, O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, that shone around me and those who journeyed with me. And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’

And I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you, delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles— to whom I am sending you to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Romans 11:13-14 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.

Romans 15:15-21 But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. In Christ Jesus, then, I have reason to be proud of my work for God. For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed, by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God—so that from Jerusalem and all the way around to Illyricum I have fulfilled the ministry of the gospel of Christ; and thus I make it my ambition to preach the gospel, not where Christ has already been named, lest I build on someone else’s foundation, but as it is written, “Those who have never been told of him will see, and those who have never heard will understand.”

Galatians 1:15-17 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone; nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.

Galatians 2:1-2 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me. I went up because of a revelation and set before them (though privately before those who seemed influential) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles, in order to make sure I was not running or had not run in vain.

Galatians 2:7-9 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

Ephesians 3:1-3 For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you, how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly.

Ephesians 3:7-8 Of this gospel I was made a minister according to the gift of God’s grace, which was given me by the working of his power. To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,....

1 Timothy 2:5-7 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle ( I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

2 Timothy 4:17 But the Lord stood by me and strengthened me, so that through me the message might be fully proclaimed and all the Gentiles might hear it. So I was rescued from the lion's mouth.

153 posted on 08/25/2014 4:18:47 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: CTrent1564
The old Saint Peter vs. Saint Paul dispute. It is like these FR Fundie Protestants think they have found the gotcha moment when in fact, great theologians 1,600 years ago dealt with these same scripture passages yet somehow they don’t agree with FR Protestant Fundie bible-thumper theology.

Such men do not agree with each other even about Peter being the rock, and both Augustine and Jerome teach erroneous things about marriage, that as re conjugal union, "the very embrace which is lawful and honourable cannot be effected without the ardour of lust," "carnal concupiscence." (Augustine; http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/15071.htm). And Jerome resorts to absurd reasoning from Scripture to justify his idea of marriage being unclean,

that while Scripture on the first, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth days relates that, having finished the works of each, “God saw that it was good,” on the second day it omitted this altogether, leaving us to understand that two is not a good number because it destroys unity, and prefigures the marriage compact. Hence it was that all the animals which Noah took into the ark by pairs were unclean. Odd numbers denote cleanness. (Against Jovinianus, Book 1, Cps. 7,13,16,33; http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf206.vi.vi.I.html)

In addition, despite Jerome;s verbose attempt to deny what is obvious, that Peter did Peter sin and that Paul rebuked one (presumably) greater than himself, the fact is that what you do testifies to what you believe at any given time, as faith is manifest by works, (Ja. 2:18) and in withdrawing from the Gentiles for fear of the Jews then Peter did sin (much less than me), and Paul rebuked him,

But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation [hypocrisy]. (Galatians 2:11-13)

But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? (Galatians 2:14)

This was not the same as Paul using his liberty to become all things to all men in following the recommendation of James in Acts 21, or personally following an aspect of Jewish ritual law, while even if Paul himself was duplicitous in so doing, this would not negate the fact that Peter was acting contrary to the Jews and Gentiles being "one new man," and equal members in the body.

That men would seek to absolve Peter of this sin is simply a testimony to the bondage of papal protection which prevents objective exegesis of Scripture, and compels it to be a servant to serve Rome.

Moreover, Paul does nothing to support the demigod status of popes in his description here, as Peter was listed 2 among those who seemed to be somewhat, and had never been ordained by any apostles, and went 14 years after his brief stay with Peter after conversion, and stated by the Holy Spirit that "in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing." (2 Corinthians 12:11)

Holy Peter was the street-level leader among the 11, and the first church and the first to use the keys to the kingdom, the gospel by which souls are placed therein, (Col. 1:13) but is not set forth in Scripture as a Roman pope to whom the churches looked to as its exalted supreme infallible head. Nor is submission to him in particular by the churches ever enjoined, even as a solution to its problems, or commended or faulted, in any church epistles or the Lord's critique of the 7 churches in Rv. 2+3.

In addition, the Holy Spirit nowhere shows or teaches successors to the foundational apostles, with the only one being for Judas in order to maintain the foundational number (cf. Rv. 21:14) - that being 12, and only 12, contra Rome, and which was by the non-political OT method of casting lots, (Acts 1:15ff) which Rome has never used.

Furthermore, Rome herself judges such "fathers" more than they judge here, and your error is that of your basis for assurance of doctrine being based upon the premise of the assured veracity of Rome.

You are not to search the Scriptures in order to ascertain the veracity of RC teaching, but your one duty is to allow yourself to be led, and like a docile flock to follow your RC Pastors.

FR protestant pope daniel1212” and the other FR protestant popes in this thread.

This is another instance of resorting to this RC sophistry, as to be a pope is to presume a personal anointing of assured infallibility, which no adherent to SS can claim, lest he be Divine, and appealing to weight of support from the Divine plenary inspired Scriptures as the basis for veracity is to not be a pope.

172 posted on 08/25/2014 5:22:57 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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