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The bible is often metaphor, and no one denies this, other than my perhaps wrong understanding that bible alone Christians take all of scripture literally, except John 6.

That's an important and helpful insight. "Bible alone Christians" are very often not well understood by their opponents. This is not something in which I am trying to fix blame, but it is a real problem with some of these FR conversations. For one thing, "Bible alone" is a misnomer if it is taken in an absolute sense. It's really more like "Bible first," or "Bible supreme" concept. "Bible alone" is a straw man. We who take the Bible as our supreme authority in matters of faith and doctrine are happy to be enlightened by sources of knowledge outside the Bible, linguistic, patristic, scientific, archaeological, etc. Very often those sources will help us better understand the Scriptures. But at the end of the day, when all fonts of wisdom have been considered, and an actual decision of faith, morals, or doctrine must be made, for us the Scriptures will trump every other claim to authority.

Furthermore, this means we are not predisposed to either a rigid literalism or a flamboyant anti-literalism. We just want to get at original intent, wherever that takes us, similar to the conservative approach to the Constitution. What is the author saying? Sometimes that can be solved most naturally with literal understanding, and sometimes best with figurative, and most often with a mixture of both.

For example, we no doubt both accept that Jesus bodily rose from the dead. Some would turn even that into a symbol with no corporeal reality, but we would reject that, because it is clear from the text that the resurrection of Jesus was both a spiritual and corporeal event, and that's how the disciples experienced it. So we accept that, because that is clearly what the author intended to convey.

certain instructions are NOT metaphor or symbol; the ten commandments and the beatitudes are clear instruction; as well as John 6.

Direct commandments and other such instruction often do have a more literal flavor to them, but even here there can be a mix of metaphor and literalness. God sent real manna from Heaven to sustain Israel. They were under specific instructions on how to gather and prepare it. But we also know it was a metaphor for the Heavenly bread, Jesus Christ, as taught in John 6.

And Israel was under instructions to remember the very real events of the Exodus from Egypt, including that amazing walling up of the waters of the Red Sea, the terrifying night of the angel of death, the real sacrifice offered for the firstborn of Israel, and the making of the first passover meal. All vividly real, but all pointing forward by prophetic metaphor to Christ, with the Red Sea a picture of our baptism and escape from sin, the passover lamb an image of Christ, by which we too escape death, the unleavened matzo of the passover meal representing both Israel's hasty escape from Egypt, and the body of our Savior broken for our escape from a slavery far worse than Egypt's.

I didn't realize how late it was. perhaps we can pick up on John 6 later. Suffice it to say for now that it is already entering metaphoric space when Jesus speaks of Himself as the Bread of Heaven, because He is using the literal manna to represent Himself, and that is metaphor.

Anyway, I must go to bed.

Peace,

SR

ping to post 418

In addition, there is this that was posted some time about about sola Scriptura and what it is and isn't. Several of us threw our lot in with this explanation.

Opponents of SS love to misrepresent it to try to discredit it.

So to clear the air, once again, hoping something might stick among someone who has an open mind and is willing to look at something from a different point of view, I am reposting it.

Here is a good definition of what is meant by Sola Scriptura.

http://vintage.aomi

“First of all, it is not a claim that the Bible contains all knowledge. The Bible is not exhaustive in every detail. John 21:25 speaks to the fact that there are many things that Jesus said and did that are not recorded in John, or in fact in any book in the world because the whole books of the world could not contain it. But the Bible does not have to be exhaustive to function as the sole rule of faith for the Church. We do not need to know the color of Thomas’ eyes. We do not need to know the menu of each meal of the Apostolic band for the Scriptures to function as the sole rule of faith for the Church.

Secondly, it is not a denial of the Church’s authority to teach God’s truth. I Timothy 3:15 describes the Church as “the pillar and foundation of the truth.” The truth is in Jesus Christ and in His Word. The Church teaches truth and calls men to Christ and, in so doing, functions as the pillar and foundation thereof. The Church does not add revelation or rule over Scripture. The Church being the bride of Christ, listens to the Word of Christ, which is found in God-breathed Scripture.

Thirdly, it is not a denial that God’s Word has been spoken. Apostolic preaching was authoritative in and of itself. Yet, the Apostles proved their message from Scripture, as we see in Acts 17:2, and 18:28, and John commended those in Ephesus for testing those who claimed to be Apostles, Revelation 2:2. The Apostles were not afraid to demonstrate the consistency between their teaching and the Old Testament.

And, finally, sola scriptura is not a denial of the role of the Holy Spirit in guiding and enlightening the Church.

What then is sola scriptura?

The doctrine of sola scriptura, simply stated, is that the Scriptures and the Scriptures alone are sufficient to function as the regula fide, the “rule of faith” for the Church. All that one must believe to be a Christian is found in Scripture and in no other source. That which is not found in Scripture is not binding upon the Christian conscience. To be more specific, I provide the following definition:

The Bible claims to be the sole and sufficient rule of faith for the Christian Church. The Scriptures are not in need of any supplement. Their authority comes from their nature as God-breathed revelation. Their authority is not dependent upon man, Church or council. The Scriptures are self-consistent, self-interpreting, and self-authenticating. The Christian Church looks at the Scriptures as the only and sufficient rule of faith and the Church is always subject to the Word, and is constantly reformed thereby.