Replies

HarleyD:

Salvation was given to Mary by a Special Grace and thus she had the Grace to respond in faith to the Angel Gabriel. And not to dispute Moses, but all OT texts should be interpreted in the light of the Person of Christ, i.e. as Saint Augustine said the OT prefigures the NT and NT fulfills in Christ the OT.

So again, I don’t outright reject free will the way the Reformed theologians do. To Love God one as to be free, otherwise it is not Love. Are we weakened due to the consequences of original sin, yes. But does God Grace enlighten and transform us to live out our faith and practice the virtue of Love, which is the greatest of faith, hope and love [Saint Paul in 1 Corinthians] yes it does.

As for #20 yes that is true, but who is and is not a member is the question. Like I said, even when that statement was written by Father Ott, and he is an orthodox Priest theologian not doubt, Fr. Fenney was claiming or interpreting that only those who are visibly in the Catholic Church would be saved, thus Orthodox and Protestants have no chance. Fenney was excommunicated by Rome in the 1940’s over this view and we are talking over 20 to 25 years before the close of Vatican 2.

Take a look at the Fr. Feeney case, he rejected baptism of blood and baptism of desire [which the Church Fathers affirm] and had a restricted view of outside the Church there is no salvation and those same Church Fathers affirmed “extra Eccliesiam nulla salus” [outside the Church there is no salvation].

Feeney was correct about secularism, communism and free masonery. He was an early prophet on the hole anti-hate speech movement which seemed to have its origins in the Ivey league in the 1950’s, and of course now if you speak out for traditional marriage, you are charged with hate speech.

Here is the actual Letter from the Holy Office in 1949 [the CDF] which had Pope Pius XII affirmation. Again, this is still 16 years before the close of Vatican II. So the reformulated statement in Vatican II in a positive manner “All salvation is from Christ through his Church” is in keeping with the Dogma and actually communicates it more accurately, despite the protests of some sedevacantist.

So I actually thank you for bringing up #20 in Ott’s list because it allowed me to go back and provide some clarification on this.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdffeeny.htm

Salvation was given to Mary by a Special Grace and thus she had the Grace to respond in faith to the Angel Gabriel.

The grace given Mary was the same grace given all believers. The exact same work in the Greek is used in this passage in Ephesians in regard to all believers.

And there is nothing anywhere in Scripture that says that she was given more grace than any one else.

She was highly favored but among those born of women, there was none greater than John the Baptist. Jesus' own words.

Mary and Grace

The word grace used in this passage in Luke is used in one other place in the Bible and that is Ephesians 1 where Paul is us that with this same grace, God has blessed us (believers) in the Beloved. IOW, we all have access to that grace and it has been bestowed on us all.

http://biblehub.com/greek/5487.htm

Luke 1:28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”

Ephesians 1:4-6 In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

Greek word “grace”

charitoó: to make graceful, endow with grace

Original Word: χαριτόω

Part of Speech: Verb

Transliteration: charitoó

Phonetic Spelling: (khar-ee-to'-o)

Short Definition: I favor, bestow freely on

Definition: I favor, bestow freely on.

HELPS Word-studies

Cognate: 5487 xaritóō (from 5486 /xárisma, "grace," see there) – properly, highly-favored because receptive to God's grace. 5487 (xaritóō) is used twice in the NT (Lk 1:28 and Eph 1:6), both times of God extending Himself to freely bestow grace (favor).

Word Origin: from charis

Definition: to make graceful, endow with grace

NASB Translation: favored (1), freely bestowed (1).

Salvation was given to Mary by a Special Grace and thus she had the Grace to respond in faith to the Angel Gabriel.

If God gave Mary "special grace" to respond, then that begs the question why God doesn't do that for all of us. It also makes one wonder if Mary's "will" was being overwritten.

And not to dispute Moses, but all OT texts should be interpreted in the light of the Person of Christ

Scripture can be viewed in two lights-the goodness of God and the inclination of man to rebel against God. And Moses didn't say, "Hey, you're weak but keep the faith." Moses said, "Hey, you're rebellious and ready to run off to some foreign god at the drop of a hat. You better be aware of that trait."

As for #20 yes that is true, but who is and is not a member is the question...

Then that really begs the question as to who is a member:

2) Was Joseph Smith a member?

3) Was Mohammud a member?

That is such a nebulous definition that anyone-and no one-would fit that qualification.