[daniel1212]

Do you not agree that Mary was given Grace by God before the coming of CHrist, or do you reject the Gospel passage as recorded by Saint Luke. Highly or Most Favored is an english translation that is dynamic equivalent to the most literal meaning which is endowed with Grace and because she was endowed by God’s Grace, she was truly free,

And believers are also said to be charitoō, graced, "highly favored - RC "full of grace" (Eph. 1:6) as being in Christ, and called to service for Him.

Mary is called "full of grace" by Catholics, yet the Scriptures do not say she was "full of grace," as "charitoo" in Lk. 1:28, is never used for "full" elsewhere, but Lk. 1:28 simply says “Hail [chairō=rejoice, greeting, etc.] grace [chairō, denoting to be graced, favored, enriched with grace as in Eph.1:6. .

Much more technical here:

Here’s the text IN GREEK:

καὶ εἰσελθὼν πρὸς αὐτὴν εἶπεν Χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη, ὁ κύριος μετὰ σοῦ.

κεχαριτωμένη, is the pf. pass. ptcp. of χαριτόω (charitoō). It is the single Greek word kexaritomena and means highly favored, make accepted, make graceful, etc. REPEATED: It is a passive participle derived from charitoō. It does not mean "full of grace" or ‘completely filled with grace’ which is "plaras karitos" (plaras = full and karitos = Grace) in the Greek....

In contrast, the only one (though in some mss Stephen, in Acts 6:8) said to be full of grace is the Lord Jesus, "full ("plērēs) of grace (charis) and truth," using "plērēs," which denotes "full" 17 other places in the NT.

However, seeking to compel Scripture to support her tradition of men, Lk, 1:28 was wrongly rendered "full of grace" in the DRB, rather than "highly favored" or similar, as in Rome's current official New American Bible, “Hail, favored one!" (http://usccb.org/bible/luke/1) Yet the DRB translates Eph. 1:6 as "in which he hath graced us."

Moreover, while Mary is highly blessed among women, and is to be honored according to what is written, this does not translate in the type of supererogation of praise seen in Catholicism, in which humble Mary is made into an almost almighty demigoddess to whom "Jesus owes His Precious Blood" to,

whose [Mary] merits we are saved by,

who "had to suffer, as He did, all the consequences of sin,"

and "was elevated to a certain equality with the Heavenly Father,"

even so that “sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus,"

for indeed saints have "but one advocate," and that is Mary, who "alone art truly loving and solicitous for our salvation,"

and whose power now "is all but unlimited,"

for indeed she "seems to have the same power as God,"

"surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven,"

so that "the Holy Spirit acts only by the Most Blessed Virgin, his Spouse."

Moreover, "there is no grace which Mary cannot dispose of as her own, which is not given to her for this purpose,"

and who has "authority over the angels and the blessed in heaven,"

including "assigning to saints the thrones made vacant by the apostate angels,"

whom the good angels "unceasingly call out to," greeting her "countless times each day with 'Hail, Mary,' while prostrating themselves before her, begging her as a favour to honour them with one of her requests,"

and who (obviously) cannot "be honored to excess,"

and who is (obviously) the glory of Catholic people, whose "honor and dignity surpass the whole of creation." Sources .

Yet as i have said before, one would have a hard time in Bible times explaining kneeling before a statue and praising the entity it represented in the unseen world, and as having Divine powers and glory, and making offerings and beseeching such for Heavenly help, directly accessed by mental prayer.

Moses, put down those rocks! I was only engaging in hyper dulia, not adoring her. Can't you tell the difference?

More .

[Elsie]

Mary is called "full of grace" by Catholics, yet...

We Prots are told we are full of something, too; but where's the evidence?

[CTrent1564]

daniel212:

Again, see earlier post and you never delt with the question I posed ,which was not posed you to start with. Among the human beings I have little tolerance for are Muslim fanatics, militant secularist, JW and the like and ex Catholics with an axe to grind. Go grind your axe somewhere else.

[CTrent1564]

Except Saint Jerome, who new Greek better than you Mr Internet self professed ex Catholic theologian and he indeed translated the passage as “Ava Maria plena gratia”. So did Jerome not understand the nuances of the style of Greek that the NT was written in and it took Protestants, and in particular, American protestants 1,600 years to figure it out.

And again, you miss the point, Mary received God’s Grace before the Incarnation, the passage in Eph 1:6 is being written some 25 years after Christ passion and resurrection, which is precisely the point I was making. God did, in a special way, provide Grace to Mary before Christ became incarnate and died and rose from the dead, for all the NT you site, those individuals received God’s Grace after Christ paschal mystery. That is a distinction that you miss and don’t want to deal with.

[CTrent1564]

Again, I don’t care what your views or on the matter. You elevate yourself to sole interpreter of scripture. Again, the Catena Aurea Commentary put together by Saint Thomas Aquinas is the most extensive Patristic Commentary of the Bible in the History of Holy Mother Church. It is a line by Line commentary of the Gospels. With respect to Luke 1:28, the commentary of the Patristics on this passage is supportive of the Catholic position

http://dhspriory.org/thomas/english/CALuke.htm

Futhermore, as other Catholic sources note [Navarre Commentary, Ignatius Commentary included in the RSC Catholic version], the passage in Luke 1:28 is the only place in the entire Bible where an angel addressed someone by a title rather than personal expression. As the Ignatius commentary notes, 2 considerations help fully clarify the meaning of the “full of grace” translation you see in many Catholic Bibles which is:

1)Saint Jerome, the greatest biblical scholar of the Church [so fluent in Hebrew, Latin and Greek that even Saint Augustine admired his biblical translation skills] translated the passage as such. While this translation is “fundamentally adequate”, it lacks the depth of the Greek original.

As the Ignatius Commentary further notes, Saint Luke could have translated the passage as pleres Charitos, as he did in Acts 6:6 with respect to Saint Stephen yet he used a different expression in Luke 1:28 for Mary [kecharitomene] that is more revealing than the other rendering as it indicates God has already Graced Mary previous to this point, making her a vessel who has been and is now filled with Divine Life.

(2) Alternative translations like “favored one” or “highly favored” are possible but inadequate. Because of the unparalleled role that Mary accepts at this turning point of salvation history, the best translation is the most exhalted one as God endowed Mary with an abundance of Grace to prepare her for the sacred vocation of Divine motherhood and to make her a sterling example of Christian holiness and faith and obedience to God’s will

Saint Augustine, Saint Ambrose and Saint Augustine’s commentaries linked earlier, support the Catholic Position. The 16th century protestant rebels support your view. I will stay with Augustine, Jerome and Ambrose’s view, you can have Calvin, Zwingli and Knox, etc.