please define “Israel” for me that way I can’t be accused of misrepresenting it
Certainly. Rather than Israel only referring to the church, the Israel of God, it also refers to unconverted Jews collectively both before the church and after Pentecost, and which are promised a future collective repentance.
"For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?" Rom 11:15.The "full inclusion" of the Jews in the Messiah's salvation, in the wake of "the full number of the Gentiles", Rom 11:12, 25; cf. Lk 21:24. will enable the People of God to achieve "the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ", in which "God may be all in all". Eph 4:13; 1 Cor 15:28.
When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. (Matthew 8:10)
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 10:6)
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:28)
And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. (Luke 1:16)
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: (Acts 2:22)
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, (Acts 4:8)
Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience. (Acts 13:16)
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. (Romans 10:1)
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (Romans 11:7)
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (Romans 11:25-26)
for example, were the Jews Jesus addressed in John 8 in Israel?
You do not read Scripture? This has been already answered, but it seems you just can't get the straw man you began with out of your head, that imagines we must hold that Jews, the"natural branches," "Israel after the flesh," are saved without believing, so that the future repentance means dead Jews are saved.
the Jew born in Ukraine in 1935 and emigrated to Israel in 1948 , are they “Israel”? was Joan Rivers “Israel”?
Likewise the answer is obvious. They are not Israel, but lost Israelites:
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; (Romans 9:4)
Matthew 15:24
>> "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
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Matthew 15:24
>> "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
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Certainly. Rather than Israel only referring to the church, the Israel of God, it also refers to unconverted Jews collectively both before the church and after Pentecost, and which are promised a future collective repentance
now everyone can see why it has been like pulling teeth for any dispensationalist to define “Israel”
the answer is RIDICULOUS.
all one need do is read that definition again and then put that definition into:
Romans 9:6 “ for not all who are descended from Israel belong to ISRAEL”.
well, if Israel is collectively all the unconverted Jews before the Church and after Pentecost, than Paul is wrong and all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.
next let’s stick that definition into Romans 11:26 “ and so all Israel will be saved”
Ok, so all the unconverted Jews, which comprise Israel will now be saved.
but then further on in the answer Joan Rivers is not called Israel, but as far as we know, she was an unconverted Jew who lived after Pentecost, which according to the definition given would make her “Israel”.
I hope everyone can see why no one believed this before the 19th century.