Posted on 08/26/2014 10:53:34 AM PDT by DariusBane
You would see me across the room when we arrived on Saturday night for staff dinner. You’d signal to me in a personal and private way that you wanted me to sit with you. And you always positioned me just directly across from you. You’d slide your feet out of your shoes and play footsies with me. You would use your feet to feel But rather than offering that protection, you exploited that situation. You asked me to tell you how it felt. To tell you if my body was aroused by their touches. You wanted vivid details. But you didn’t just want them once. For months, we had the same conversations. Repeatedly. Alone. No parent sitting in. No accountability for you. No protection for me.
You violated me in your own way by repeatedly demanding me to talk about those graphic sexual acts with you. You taught me that there are no “victims” in sexual abuse; only people who have un-confessed sin in their life and are now receiving their own. You taught me to feel shame for my body’s sexual responses. You held me responsible for what they’d done to me, telling me that if I did not comply with our “counseling sessions”, you would have no choice but to take my situation to the local authorities. You coerced me. ...my calves and knees and feet all the while, smiling warmly and winking at me in those fractions of a second when no one was watching.
As an adult now – and especially as a parent of daughters – I have gone through tremendous sadness for my young self that there simply was not within me the red lights that should have been flashing. Something inside of me was not right and you were the one who impeded
(Excerpt) Read more at redemptionpictures.com ...
*but that does not take away from the good he did do in this life or the very good families that took part in ATIA.*
That is the excuse used in 1980 to reinstall BG. Charles Stanley wanted the scandal to go away so that Ronald Reagan would be elected president. Charles figured that the scandal would hurt the conservative cause. Many people excused BG’s behavior for years “because of the good he did”.
I told you why I am motivated to expose BG and ATI.
1. You cannot separate the teachings of ATI from the man. Impossible.
2. I have personally seen many lives twisted and destroyed by ATI.
3. I want people to know what they are getting into and run the other way.
That’s it. You on the other hand will not take the time to learn the truth. You ask questions you don’t want answered. I have provided copious amounts of information for you. BTW is has taken me months of sporadic reading to go through the Recovering Grace website and I still find things I have not read.
The Recovering Grace website features both expert opinion, and testimonials. You won’t agree with everything you read, neither did I.
But it paints an accurate picture of the man, BG, and his ministry and the many pitfalls surrounding the ministry and it’s adherents.
The primary features are: Condense God into an easy to read manual. Listen to Bills many amazing stories, and get under the umbrella, or else.
I want to know why you so vigorously defend the man? How are you vested in his program? I have given you page after page of testimonials about the harm his program has done people. Real people. Yet you tell me BG and ATI have done wonderful work. So what? I hear that Stalin could be very kind to his secretaries. Does that excuse the crimes of Stalin?
I have given you copious material, but you keep asking questions you don’t want the answers to, or are unwilling to do the required work to find out for yourself.
Gee, Darius if you actually read any of my replies I have called the man an idiot and a loser does not sound like I am defending him in the least.
I have been very clear about who I am defending all along....the many, very good and beautiful families who love God enough to invest so much time teaching their children about him, spread throughout many, many denominations that have truly impressed me over the years.
Your copious material is nothing compared to the actual books used by an ATIA family to home school their children I was given to read through when I was doing a study of all the different home schooling curriculums.
Yes, I actually read through several years of ATIA books and no I did not run off to do the program and no I do not think less of them and YES, for the most part the children turn out very well. Yes, there are always exceptions to the rule but even some Amish children leave and my church defiantly does not have a 100% success rate but the same can be said of ever school also.
We all have windmills we fight. When does that fight hurt you is the question.
Gee, when it is straight from the Bible I sort of think you can. Until you can separate the Bible from the teaching and leave only what the man is imputing then you have an argument.
You have yet to show a single teaching that is extra Biblical that every one is following as doctrine.
Liberty IS the acceptance of risk. Everybody here at FR loves to talk about Liberty. Very few are willing to accept the high price of liberty; Risk.
In the long course of human history, liberty is an anomaly. The human heart yearns to perpetrate tyranny. We do this because organization, specialization and cooperation are what makes us a successful species. Freedom, and the acceptance of the risk concurrent with liberty is generally too high a price to pay.
Instead of demanding liberty, I will be more blunt. I will accept the high price of risk in order to reap the bounty of liberty. I do this with my eyes wide open, and with a firm belief that this world, this short brutish life is only a beginning. This thesis is the necessary corner stone which allows me to accept risk in return for liberty.
Many psuedo-freedom lovers here at FreeRepublic crawl under a rock, cower, squeel like school girls and give up liberties the very instant that risk is introduced.
We fight two very different battles.
Interesting post.
I like the Duggar family. I’ve watched their show throughout the years. I find them odd (but I also find the Kardashians and those like them, odd). They’re two opposite extremes.
I certainly wouldn’t live or raise my kids as the Duggars have but they are self supporting and seem to like their lifestyle.
Serious question here...do you really think the Duggar kids are being abused? I find it odd that they aren’t allowed to socialize without chaperones and such or work or attend college (other than online college) but they really seem to be a well grounded Christian family. They seem way more normal or adjusted than other reality show families.
I have never even heard of the Duggar family until this thread. I have just met many ATIA families and liked most of them. Some of them were just great fun to be around....complete madness but great fun.
The problem then comes in how strict the parents try to hold on. The smart ones let go of some slack because they come right back the dumb ones put their foot down and cause a deep rift.
I think the Duggar family (the parents anyway) follow the Gothard guy. I’m not sure about it all. I don’t know the details. I’ve watched their show for the last few years when I catch it on TV. They have 19 kids now and I think the show started in “specials” when they had 16? Not sure. The oldest son is married with 3 kids of his own. I think two of the daughters are engaged and getting married this year.
They seem like a really nice family and such a contrast to many of the other “reality” shows on TV.
His teachings are not straight from the bible. His teachings are extra biblical.
You don’t have any idea about that which you speak. The information about Mr. Gothard and that organization are available to you.
That’s all I can do.
The ATI system is inherently abusive. Demands conformity.
Values adherence to rules over relationship to Christ.
I don’t now if the Dugger kids are abused or not. I do know that the ATI system, Quiverfull, and the patriarch movement are bad news.
With an wildly 11-year-old fantastic imagination that has persisted through until adult life, and "memories" that sound gigantically distorted. My estimation is that Heather's story could be a paper for an undergraduate course in (very) creative writing--almost believable for a soft-headed, credulous audience.
Their are seven other women who have come forward with stories that have report the same pattern of behavior:
Grooming: Using prayer and counseling to break down physical barriers.
Footsie: Bill loved playing footsie with young girls. It is reported over and over and is a common thread.
Touching thighs and breasts through clothing: This is a common thread.
If this were one allegation I can understand your comment. However:
http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/05/bills-cabin-uncovering-sin/
http://redemptionpictures.com/2014/07/08/dear-bill-gothard/
Nine other stories:
http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/07/link-heathers-story/#more
http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/01/sacred-grooming-part-one/
So a consistent pattern exists. Not one story. Read through it if you want truth. Don’t read it if you don’t want truth.
In fact, what's coming up is that you place yourself directly under suspicion as to your motives, especially as to whether they have merit or are just mud-throwing character assassination.
Let me ask you:
o Do you know Gothard personally?
o Have you ever worked for the Institute, or are you related or otherwise intimately connected with anybody who has?
o Have you ever served on one of the local voluntary Seminar committees, or personally known anyone that has?
o Has Gothard ever in person directly offended you, face to face?
o Have you ever taken up your criticisms with him personally in private or open conference?
o Has any of the teaching materials available from the Institute ever asked you to learn, teach, or practice any unbiblical, unchristian, or unwholesome doctrines?
o Have you ever paid for and faithfully attended any of the Institute of Basic Life Principles Seminars?
o Have you ever had a tour through the facilities in Oak Brook to observe it in its day-to-day operations?
o Is your doggedness in tearing up this man's conduct based on taking up someone else's offenses, gratuitously?
I'm rather curious as to what your motivation is. Is it from a pure heart?
In this thread, the central issue is whether Heather's unproven--and likely unproveable--plethora of claimed unlawful and unethical incidents have any procedural or substantive bases at all. I read the entire original article and log of comments, and come away with a sense of misplaced compassion on the part of easily gulled readers, save one other than myself.
Let's hear what your unspoken agenda really is to account for the numerous unproven actionable accusations you have made -- and why.
It does kind of look like you've are used this and another similar recent thread to direct attention to your own preferred blog site.
Is that not so?
Everything you have said and alledged is B.S.
BG is who he is. Sorry.
People here are taking your assertions at face value. I am not.
So now you are trying your undercutting with me. What's your game?
You are deflecting. I wont play.
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