Posted on 09/03/2014 6:36:07 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
I hold Mary in esteem just as I do Moses, Isaiah, David, John, Paul, Peter, etc.—based on Scripture. God did use these people. Yet none of them could “once for all enter into the holy of holies” and secure redemption. You have invented a substitute, an add-on to the FINISHED work of Christ Jesus and as such are in danger of apostle Paul’s anathema (never mind toothless Trent’s).
Repent, change your mind and do the only work God demands: BELIEVE in the one he has sent.
They have eyes but don’t see.
It is the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Nothing about Mary. She ain’t in there. End of subject.
PS. Christ is the CREATOR GOD. He did the creating. As I have heard several very well known Bible teachers put it, the Holy Trinity had a meeting and chose God the Son as the Creator. They are three in one. Not three different Gods.
Absurd. Where in the Bible do you get this stuff? I'd love to see chapter and verse on that, because I've read the New Testament through and through, and I've never heard of any such thing mentioned, or even claimed, by any Pretestant teacher I've ever heard preach. You'd think that after 50 years I woiuld have heard that radical notion at least once!
Has some man just made these things up as he went along?
John the Baptist said he was unworthy of loosening Christ's shoe-latchet. Kind of an odd thing to say for someone who "never committed the least personal sin in his entire life, not even a single, semi-deliberate venial sin", wouldn't you say?
I mean, the Baptist may not have been guilty of the sin of Pride, but it sounds like he had something more than just "original" sin on his mind when he made that statement.
No, sir. John the Baptist, like Mary, you, me, and every Saint whoever lived, was aught but a sinner who committed sin. His righteousness, just like mine, is as filthy rags compared to Christ. Mary and others may have been blessed, but none but Christ have been sinless.
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Yes, I've definitely read that one.
I truly do not understand the impulse to extrapolate extraneous doctrine and add it to what is actually there in the New Testament.
As a Protestant, I find it wholly unnecessary, and I'm not trying to antagonize Catholics, but to embrace such doctrines, and, furthermore, be stridently dogmatic about them, in the utter absence of any logical scriptural basis, is just misguided, IMHO.
Even if such doctrine doesn't provide a stumblingblock to one's Brother or oneself, to stridently insist that such questionable conclusions are immutable Truth is just not reasonable.
Regardless, Peace be with you.
No, but the faith of a child is exemplary and should not thrown out with the bath water, so to speak. That’s all. Not saying it was true. It was not enlightening at all and I believe there are 7 churches, but not all members of those churches are included in “The Church.” If you know what I mean. We are human and each have major faults.
I believe you misunderstood that when Jesus was 12 he astounded the Rabbis with his knowledge.
All things should be scrutinized against the Word. I don’t understand converting from Protestantism to Catholicism since all are saved by Grace alone and faith itself is a gift.
I’m not 100% sure that you know what “straw man argument” means.
The claim, by Protestants, that Catholics worship Mary (and other saints)—i.e., that Catholics are taught to commit idolatry—is quite common. It is a claim made frquently right here on FR.
I think that's a bizarre assertion. I have seen countless posts (and whole threads) right here on FR, where Protestants have spilled buckets of ink (so to speak) asserting that Catholics worship statues, paintings, and dead humans--Mary above all.
Luke 11:27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”
The very beginning of Mary worship was swatted down by the Lord but the RCC quickly picked it back up.
I learned in school that Jesus’ brothers did not accept Him as Messhiah until after the resurrection.
There is a fundamental difference between public and private revelation. EWTN has an excellent explanation. I suggest you read it. http://www.catholic.com/tracts/private-revelation
Mary was equally in need of forgiveness as any other woman....she was not sinless. To elevate her to the extent catholics do.. and it’s teachings concerning her... is an offense to Jesus Christ for He alone is to be worshipped, bowed down to and adored...and prayed to.
Your reasoning is like liberals ....you invent some off handed idea of who Mary is in your minds, contrary to the truth God has declared, because to accept the truth would mean you’d have to face your errors and examine everything else about the catholic church they indoctrinated you with.
It’s much, much easier to carry the banner of the “we catholics” rather than the banner of the Cross of Christ and His gospel message front and center... that there is salvation and forgiveness found ONLY in Him....not in a church denomination that makes false claims about itself and misleads the masses it needs to keep it’s coffers filled and it’s power in Rome alive.
That shouldn’t have mattered according to the rules of caring for ones’ mother. The Jews had traditions that the surviving women were cared for by family members first. So, I still wonder why Jesus didn’t give her care to one of His brothers. It stumps me.
Oh hogwash...God can and does anything he wants with whomever he wants, he is not bound by any thing of man....either he's sovereign or he's not.
There is nowhere where Mary attributes her sinless "vessel" to her Son except in catholic teachings and how they distort the scriptures to justify their doctrines.
Jesus isn't on the cross anymore...He arose...Catholics would do well to amplify this by showing the cross without him 'still' struggling there....
He said...It's finished". .....Mary is NOT Co-Redemptrix with Jesus. She was not on the cross nor did she arise... Mary does Not sanctify souls, nor is she anyone's 'spiritual mother', and further.... she does not dispense grace.
We do NOT consecrate ourselves to a sinner named Mary whom God used as a biological vessel. We give ourselves wholly and totally to Jesus, the 'only' worthy one in the universe.
Not without overriding her free will.
But it's irrelevant because if Mary can be born sinless of a sinful mother, then Jesus could be born sinless of a sinful mother.
And using an attempt at human *logic* to try to justify church doctrine, doesn't mean He DID.
Not to mention there's no Scriptural support for Mary being immaculately conceived.
SHE recognized her sinfulness, even if Catholics don't, as she called God her *savior*.
Only sinners need a savior.
Any human who doesn't sin doesn't need a savior.
If you or any other Catholic bows before a likeness of Mary, they are breaking the second commandment.
Exodus 20:1-6 And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me.
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Bowing is bowing and that is forbidden.
Who is our brother and sister and mother? Are they not our fellow brothers and sisters in faith in Christ? Who did Jesus love above all his brothers in faith? John the Beloved. He probably knew who would be best, no? They were together at His crucifixion, brother and mother.
When Mary and her other sons, Jesus’ brothers, came to visit Jesus He explicitly pointed to His disciples and said they were His mother and brothers. Matthew 12. Notice He does not say they are His father.
The same word for grace that was used to greet Mary by Gabriel, is the same word that Paul uses inspired by the Holy Spirit, in regard to all believers.
Mary and Grace
The word grace used in this passage in Luke is used in one other place in the Bible and that is Ephesians 1 where Paul is us that with this same grace, God has blessed us (believers) in the Beloved. IOW, we all have access to that grace and it has been bestowed on us all.
http://biblehub.com/greek/5487.htm
Luke 1:28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”
Ephesians 1:4-6 In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
Greek word “grace”
charitoó: to make graceful, endow with grace
Original Word: χαριτόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: charitoó
Phonetic Spelling: (khar-ee-to'-o)
Short Definition: I favor, bestow freely on
Definition: I favor, bestow freely on.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 5487 xaritóō (from 5486 /xárisma, "grace," see there) – properly, highly-favored because receptive to God's grace. 5487 (xaritóō) is used twice in the NT (Lk 1:28 and Eph 1:6), both times of God extending Himself to freely bestow grace (favor).
Word Origin: from charis
Definition: to make graceful, endow with grace
NASB Translation: favored (1), freely bestowed (1).
.....”They portray people asking Mary to pray for them”.....
Sadly they are praying into the wind...she cannot hear them nor does she have the authority to respond. That is Jesus Christ’s alone and the work of His Spirit in the life’s of mankind.
Mary is dead, and God said do NOT commune with the dead. Spiritism is strictly banned by God. ...The mary of the catholic church is not the Mary of the Bible.
“I truly do not understand the impulse to extrapolate extraneous doctrine and add it to what is actually there in the New Testament.”
It’s the impulse of Satan, who blinds the minds of the unbelieving. Jesus plainly rebuked Satan with Scripture, asked his challengers “what does the Scripture say?” and declared “...the Scripture cannot be broken...” Anyone who pooh-poohs Scripture or arrogantly invents his own add-ons is in grave danger.
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