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To: af_vet_1981
Yes, I allow the Gentiles are granted an Apostolic exemption, as it were, within limits. I believe and trust all the Jewish Apostles, save Judas who fell from grace as it were.

So you believe Paul then? Even when he says:

2Cor 3:7-11  But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:  (8)  How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?  (9)  For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.  (10)  For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.  (11)  For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Which covenant is it that is set in stone and not heart? Moses. Contrasted with what?  The ministration of the Spirit. One covenant brings condemnation.  The other, righteousness. Through the letter of the law? No.  Through the Spirit. And what is set aside? The moral principles from which the law flows? No, never.  Those are eternal. We agree on that.  What passes is the ministration of those principles through the mediation of the Aaronic priesthood, displaced by a new ministration God's eternal righteousness through the mediation of Jesus Christ, our High Priest:

Heb 7:11-14  If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?  (12)  For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.  (13)  For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.  (14)  For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

What helps here is to remember that the law under Moses had a specific purpose.  It was to prepare the way for Messiah, to establish both the righteousness of God and the failure of all of us to live up to that righteousness, and thus to establish our need for redemption through the sacrifice of the Lamb of God. To deny the genuine newness of the New Covenant is to deny that purpose, as clearly taught by both Jesus and those Jewish apostles of His. The Old Covenant revolved around the service of the Temple, but if the Temple service is done away, and God Himself settled that question in 70AD, there is simply no way to  carry out the ministration of the law under Moses.  It cannot be done in bits and pieces.  Matthew 5 does not allow for that. And if the heart of the Old Covenant law cannot be ministered to lost souls, then no souls can be saved under that law.

Thus the New Covenant in Jesus' blood is not simply a nice addition to Moses, it is the completion of it, the fulfillment of it's purpose, and the only now available means of salvation for lost souls.  To deny this new ministration, about which Paul and the others are so clear, is to deny the very purpose of Christ in dying on our behalf.  This is why Paul was so wroth with the Galatian foolishness of mixing law and grace.  Such a mixture amounts to a denial of the Christian Gospel, because it renders the death of Christ meaningless:

Gal 2:19-21  For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.  (20)  I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.  (21)  I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

All of this fits perfectly with Christ's own teaching, that the law in it's Mosaic form would not pass till all was fulfilled, and that when Jesus died and rose again, that was the promised fulfillment. And so now the old wine is too old, and the new wine must be put in a new container, built from the teachings of Christ and His Apostles, for the benefit of His New Covenant people, made as Jewish Apostle Paul says into One New Man in Christ, Jew and Gentile in the same covenant together, and not two covenants, one for Jews and one for Gentiles.  No such thing is taught. The Jerusalem Council did not even teach that Jews were obligated to Moses, only that for the peace of the body of Christ, Gentiles should avoid certain extremely offensive behaviors.

But there is only one New Covenant, not two. And in this covenant, the fulfillment of the righteousness of God does not come through the ministration of the letter of the law, but through the ministration of the Spirit, which sheds abroad in our heart the love of God, by which we fulfill the righteousness of God apart from the law. This is the teaching of your Jewish apostles.

Peace,

SR



270 posted on 09/17/2014 10:27:50 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Springfield Reformer
What helps here is to remember that the law under Moseshad has a specific purpose.

Fixed it

I get the general impression (not from you, although I have no clue how a Baptist can be a reformed Protestant), that many use the surviving writings of Paul to try to work around the recorded teachings of Jesus. I think this is a particular trend among Protestants and Evangelicals. Catholics have different problems, but seem not to have this problem.

272 posted on 09/18/2014 6:04:40 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: Springfield Reformer
The Jerusalem Council did not even teach that Jews were obligated to Moses, only that for the peace of the body of Christ, Gentiles should avoid certain extremely offensive behaviors.

17And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

273 posted on 09/18/2014 6:44:52 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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