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To: ronnietherocket3
I doubt Second Temple Jews were adopting Pagan practices, particularly after the Maccabean revolt

But Goldhammer said prayer for the dead was not practiced around that time, but 100 years later and only by some Jews. A lot can happen in two generations, and did.

Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. (Titus 1:14)

And it remains that praying to the departed in Heaven is utterly absent in Scripture, except by pagans, while prayer to God abounds,

and is specifically instructed to be addressed by the Lord in teaching the how to pray,

and with only God being the only one shown having the ability to hear and respond to infinite amounts of prayer,

and with Christ being manifest as the only and all sufficient Heavenly intercessor,

and with believers having direct access by Him into the holy of holies to worship commune and petition God.

Your quote establishes that it was in Jewish thought a century before the Apostles and not an innovation of the Catholic Church.

The point is that it was an innovation, utterly absent in Scripture despite over 150 prayers, and contrary to the power and position saints are shown to have, in contrast to God/Christ.

Given Jesus' repeated interactions with the Pharisees and Paul's' statement that he had been a disciple of Gamaliel, I would expect to be able to find them giving an unqualified put down of all Pharisaic notions.

That is another case in which the conclusion is unwarranted. At is takes is one major rejection of Truth and they are invalidated, while that the Pharisees supported prayer for the dead, let alone to the departed, is never shown or inferred.

The best anyone has been able to show to date is a put down of a specific tradition or two.

Really? You have the notion that "out of Galilee ariseth no prophet," plus that the common people could not be right versus them, and that itinerant preachers could not be valid if they rebuked the historical magisterium, both of which are quite like Rome when claiming assured veracity.

Then answered them the Pharisees, Are ye also deceived? Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him? But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed. (John 7:47-49)

Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth? They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet. (John 7:51-52)

555 posted on 10/05/2014 8:37:11 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212; ronnietherocket3
>> “And it remains that praying to the departed in Heaven is utterly absent in Scripture, except by pagans, while prayer to God abounds” <<

.
Of course, since they are not in heaven:

John 3:13

[13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

.

628 posted on 10/06/2014 10:55:53 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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