That's a darned good question!!!
Why would anyone become Catholic?
Posted on 10/08/2014 11:39:09 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
Why would intelligent, successful people give up their careers, alienate their friends, and cause havoc in their families...to become Catholic? Indeed, why would anyone become Catholic?
As an evangelist and author who recently threw my own life into some turmoil by deciding to enter the Catholic Church, I've faced this question a lot lately. That is one reason I decided to make this documentary; it's part of my attempt to try to explain to those closest to me why I would do such a crazy thing.
Convinced isn't just about me, though. The film is built around interviews with some of the most articulate and compelling Catholic converts in our culture today, including Scott Hahn, Francis Beckwith, Taylor Marshall, Holly Ordway, Abby Johnson, Jeff Cavins, Devin Rose, Matthew Leonard, Mark Regnerus, Jason Stellman, John Bergsma, Christian Smith, Kevin Vost, David Currie, Richard Cole, and Kenneth Howell. It also contains special appearances by experts in the field of conversion such as Patrick Madrid and Donald Asci.
Ultimately, this is a story about finding truth, beauty, and fulfillment in an unexpected place, and then sacrificing to grab on to it. I think it will entertain and inspire you, and perhaps even give you a fresh perspective on an old faith.
(Excerpt) Read more at indiegogo.com ...
So that Mary died is gospel truth, and she could not have been bodily assumed into heaven..like others before her before death? Or is this something one can disagree on?
And upon what basis is the veracity of the doctrine of the assumption?
Which is begging the question, assuming that needs to be proved. What books did Luther's Bible not contain that you object to?
Who will hear more of the Bible at church in a three year period, a Catholic or Protestant?
How are you going to prove this? How much of the Bible does a weekly Catholic hear? And how is even a comparison of a multiplicity of churches which is so typically wide that you can drive a Unitarian Scientology Swedenborgian 747 thru it not specious and even meaningful?
If the Bible is the SOLE or ULTIMATE rule of faith, by what authority did Luther remove books from the Bible?
Again this begs the question. What authoritative indisputable infallible canon did Luther remove books from, and in dissent from the all of Rome's scholars at Trent and before that?
And by what infallible authority (which your question presumes is essential for a canon) were OT writings established by, which the Lord and apostles invoked in substantiating their Truth claims?
Did the Bible tell him to do it?
In principle the Bible commands believers to exercise judgment:
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thessalonians 5:21)
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. (1 Corinthians 2:15)
And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ; (Philippians 1:9-10)
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1)
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (Matthew 7:20)
(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. (Ephesians 5:9-10)
Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. (Ephesians 5:10)
The question then are, can believers discern btwn both true men and writings of God and false ones without an infallible magisterium (which is what your question presupposes)? If so, why must Luther be wrong, versus how could he be shown to be wrong, and how were true men and writings of God established as being so?
It can only be correct as meaning the canon is not infallible under the premise of a church possessing assured infallibility decreeing it so, being impossible for it to err. But if it a canon is a collection only of infallible books then it is an infallible canon, as even a pagan can state an infallible truth. (Acts 17:28)
Yet it would be another level for a canon to be held as being infallible as containing all the inspired writings that ever were or could be, which is actually a matter of RC debate.
I am not worthy of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which thou hast shewed unto thy servant... (Genesis 32:10)
Then the question of definition must be asked, which is upon what basis was the original holy, catholic, apostolic church established? On the premise that being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation (oral and written) means that such possesses assured infallibility, as Rome claims?
And that this is essential for the conveyance, determination, assurance and preservation of Truth, and with authenticity being assured by historical descent?
I have heard this before. Holding that the two or three constitute a church (ekklesia/qahal/synagogue) here is deficient. Church is mentioned in the preceding verse; prior to that, two or three witnesses are mentioned. It seems to me from the context Jesus was not talking about you and your friends constituting a church whenever you get together for coffee and donuts or to pray. It is worth noting the minimum number of Jews (women and children do not count toward a minyan, only adult Jewish men) required for called out assembled prayer is 10. Ekklesia/Qahal is a called out assembly, which takes on the catholic aspect later in Acts once perhaps, and numerous times in the Pauline Epistles (though some will argue all references are to local assemblies, real or generic, and the catholic aspect only takes place at the return of Messiah.
I think this is the relevant basis. And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you. Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house: And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb. Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats: And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it. And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
And that this is essential for the conveyance, determination, assurance and preservation of Truth, and with authenticity being assured by historical descent?
There should be an unbroken chain of apostolic succession in the choice of bishops; there must always be a seed that held to the traditional teaching of the Jewish Apostles, guaranteed by the grace and truth of Jesus our Messiah who prophesied the gates of hell would not prevail against the church he built and builds; I understand it had to be adapted to the Gentiles; that was the plan, even though I, like the Apostles, wished for the immediate restoration of the kingdom to Israel. Our Father, who art in heaven, had a different schedule.
tc:of course she did...then she was assumed into heaven..like others before her.
There's absolutely no record of anyone in Scripture other than Jesus, who died, was raised to life, and then taken up into heaven.
Enoch and Elijah were taken directly without having seen death, which is not the same thing as is being claimed about Mary, so they cannot be used as examples of what is claimed to have happened to Mary.
Additionally, if she had been sinless, she would not have died. The wages of sin is death. If she died, it is proof positive that she had sinned, contrary to what Catholic teaching about her is.
It's a total fabrication by the Catholic church that it ever happened to anyone. And anything that happened to Mary after what is recorded about her in Acts on the day of Pentecost is pure speculation and hearsay.
So, no, you are incorrect, it did not happen to Mary nor *others before her*.
Methinks that the RC Sproul quote is taken out of context, like so many of the Luther quotes that we see.
Please give us Scripture that defines the church of Jesus Christ, the body of Christ, in those specific terms and that that is the only legitimate type of church that one can affiliate with.
Actually, it IS legitimate and Jesus is the one who legitimizes it.
He just gives a short discourse on settling disputes between brothers, refers to the church, and then ends it with stating that where as few as two or three are gathered together, HE is there in the midst.
IOW, there is church and they have the authority to settle disputes and bind and loose things.
Pretty blue font, but what is it?
Did you make that up?
If not, where did you get it from?
1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.In which the word holy (hagios) refers to all believers, not because they are perfect, but because they are all "set apart" by an act of God. This idea of consecration is more central to the idea of being holy than personal righteousness. The Temple was neither righteous nor unrighteous in itself, being a mere thing. But it was set apart to God, for God's use, and therefore holy, as here:
Ephesians 2:19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; (20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; (21) In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (22) In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.As Paul is addressing all believers generally, and Gentile believers specifically, we understand that the whole structure of this temple made of living stones is holy, not segregated into a saintly master class lording it over an unsaintly laity. Because we are all built on the same foundation stone, Jesus Christ, we are each one set apart to the service of God, all of us a holy priesthood, doing service to God in His living temple, the ecclesia Christ is building.
Revelation 5:8-10 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. (9) And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; (10) And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.Therefore any believer, every believer, redeemed to God by the blood of God's Lamb Jesus belongs to a group that was drawn by the Father to Jesus, out of every "kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation," therefore truly universal.
Ephesians 3:1-5 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, (2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: (3) How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, (4) Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) (5) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;The ministry of apostleship is grounded in divine revelation. We are as believers to be "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets," which is not personal to the original apostles, now all deceased. But the apostolic ministry was revelation of the truths of the Gospel, which they received directly from Jesus, proclaimed by the power of the Spirit, and attested by singular miracles for authentication, setting a firm foundation for the ecclesia Christ is building. And these apostles have left us a record of these truths, our Scriptures. These we claim as our apostolic succession, our apostolic foundation, not a continuity of fallible men, but a continuity of infallible, God-breathed, apostolic truth, accessible to any believer by the power of God's Spirit dwelling in them.
Luke 1:1-4 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, (2) Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; (3) It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, (4) That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.The Scriptures, being God-breathed, are our connection to the history out of which our faith was born. They are the faithful report of faithful eyewitnesses, and have been believed by all who belong to Christ, of every age. But just as in Noah's day, the number of those faithful to the truth may dwindle for a time to small numbers, and seem insignificant amongst history's bigger players. But the Lord knows His own, and His promise to build His ecclesia cannot and will not fail. Therefore we know that in every age there have been those who worshiped Him in spirit and in truth, if not in grand temples or stain-glassed cathedrals. He can keep track of the least sparrow, and in the end it is His record of history that matters, not ours.
Matthew 5:14-16 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. (15) Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. (16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.It is impossible for those set apart to God NOT to be visible. It is an inescapable byproduct of being redeemed from the evils of this world. We stand out from the crowd like foreigners not dressed in the native clothing. We wear the robes of Jesus' righteousness, and the world despises us for it:
Philippians 2:14-16 Do all things without murmurings and disputings: (15) That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; (16) Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.And being light is not just sitting there and glowing, but setting a fire in the world by boldly proclaiming the Gospel message, which is the word of life. This is a visibility that does not derive from being on the membership list of some human organization, but as Paul says above, a natural consequence of being the children of God. And no child of God can come to be so by denominational affiliation. No, there is only one way to become a child, and that is to be born, and only one way to become a child of God, and that is to be born again. And if born again, sons and daughters of the day, and a light to lighten the darkness of this world, and therefore exquisitely visible.
Galatians 5:12
Oh, yes they can.
Many weird groups manage to get CALLED 'christian' today.
To say they actually follow what the Book clearly teaches is another matter in itself.
....Jesus knew how to use metaphor and this WAS one of them.
And today, the VAST majority of folks CAN read and we CAN actually READ the varying phases your chosen religion has gone thru and the feeble attempts to justify them and accuse others for it's problems.
Is this a parable; or an example of reading the mind of GOD?
There, there... of course she did; and she is just waiting to hear from YOU!
Let's try some easy math:
There are approximately 1.2 billion Catholics world wide;
If merely 1% of them 'ask' Mary for help just once each day;
that means that 12 million separate prayers are headed Mary's direction every day.
Given that there are 86,400 seconds per day... (24 hours times 60 minutes times 60 seconds)
...that means that Mary has to handle approximately 139 'requests' per second!
Purty good fer someone NOT 'devine'!
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