[Gamecock]

Followup to the following: Hillsong Church, Relevance & Pariahs...declined to give the church's position on same-sex marriage

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[all the best]

Thanks. I was very disappointed in Houston and Hillsong. Glad to have this clarification.

[Alex Murphy]

Nowhere in my answer did I diminish biblical truth or suggest that I or Hillsong Church supported gay marriage....My personal view on the subject of homosexuality would line up with most traditionally held Christian views. I believe the writings of Paul are clear on this subject....I explained that this struggle for relevance was vexing as we did not want to become ostracized by a world that needs Christ.

The "writings of Paul are clear", his personal views line up with "most (but not all) traditionally held Christian views", but does he actually articulate what any of those are? No. Also note that he gives more time to "my personal view" than he does to "my church's view".

Not exactly the "our church doctrine agrees with the Bible, which clearly states that homosexual activities inside or outside gay marriage is a sin" answer that the article spins it to be.

[GeronL]

...will place a barrier between the church and the world

Has this person ever read the Bible? Does he remember the parts about how the church and believers will be hated and persecuted for allegiance to God's truth?

Dude, it is either one side or the other.

[LearnsFromMistakes]

But that he had to even issue a statement is evidence of the very ambiguity that existed in the first place.

Or, it is evidence of the pettiness of many christians - the only army in the world that attacks its wounded and proclaims any perceived weakness at the top of its lungs for the enemy to hear...

Can you imagine the nation of Israel trying to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem...instead of working with a sword at the ready, they would shout to the enemy 'hey...my neighbor here hasn't finished his wall...it isn't strong right here...it may look ok, but there is no strength to it'.

Maybe when we see a weakness (or a perceived weakness), we should 'cover' it - not to hide it or pretend it doesn't exist - but to stand in the gap. There is already an 'accuser of the brethren', he doesn't need our help...

[GeronL]

Not only do I find it troubling that he thinks there should be no distance between the world and the church but that he thinks Christians are the ones building the barrier despite the Bible making it very clear that they will hate us and persecute us because we are believers.

Sounds like he thinks it will be our own fault.

[opus86]

This relevance goofiness is making for squishy evangelicals. Truth and eternity are always relevant, to all people at all times.

[circlecity]

"I explained that this struggle for relevance was vexing as we did not want to become ostracized by a world that needs Christ."

This troubles me. If you don't want to be "ostracized by the world" then you really don't want to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus told us the world would reject the Gospel and would hate Christians as it hated him. Paul says the Gospel is "foolishness" to the world and that a person trying to live a righteous life in Jesus Christ would be (not "may be" but "world be") persecuted. Being ostracized and hated by the world is the mark of a solid Christian. If you want to be loved by the world and not ostracized by the world then you have no business being a Christian "pastor".

[60Gunner]

"I explained that this struggle for relevance was vexing as we did not want to become ostracized by a world that needs Christ."

Mr. Houston, I beg to differ. The only entity to whom the church must be relevant is the kingdom of Almighty God, established in Heaven and earth by the Lord Jesus Christ, and administered through His Holy Spirit through the Community of he saints.

2 Corinthians 15-17 makes it very clear: "15 For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, 16 to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things? 17 For we are not, like so many, peddlers of God's word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God, in the sight of God we speak in Christ.

Can't say it any plainer than that, Mr. Houston.

[ravenwolf]

I made the point that public statements condemning people will place a barrier between the church and the world

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John 15:18
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.....

I believe it is a Pastors job to tell it like it is but to keep their own views out of it, do not add and do not take away, many will add their own views which will keep people from even seeking the truth which does become a barrier.

Just preach the words Jesus spoke and then if the world hates you remember that Jesus said that it would be so.

Pastors also should be very cautious when preaching from the words of Paul and remember that Paul `s letters were to established Churches who`s members were already part of the church and should have known better than to do some of the things they were doing or condoning, such as 1 Corinthians 5:1

I am not sure which disturbs me the most, those who say that sola scripture is wrong or those who claim to believe in sola scripture but prove they don`t by going away from it in both directions.

[HarleyD]

I explained that this struggle for relevance was vexing as we did not want to become ostracized by a world that needs Christ.

I'm sure if we phrase the message just right thousands will come to Christ just like the day of Pentacost. And we must be careful for we certainly don't want OUR message to be ostracized by the world. /sacm

What ever happened to the idea that Christians will face persecution?