Posted on 10/28/2014 3:19:32 PM PDT by Faith Presses On
The Church doesn’t teach that Adam and Eve were the result of “evolution” (whatever that is).
If the Pope holds that they were, that’s his opinion.
The Church teaches that the soul of each person (Adam, Eve, you, me) is the direct creation of God, not the result of any material process.
That’s a false choice. That’s not what taking the Creation account literally means. It’s taken as history - history of a unique sort. Now, a historical account of something doesn’t mean it’s about science. If you read an account of something, it’s not about science (unless that’s the actual topic), but along the way there will almost certainly be a lot that relates to human knowledge of the natural world. But that doesn’t mean that the point of every history is science. The point of Genesis is history. I doubt we could even begin to understand the physical science, despite what’s known today.
>>Discuss the issues all you want, do not make it personal.
Attempting to make a thread about another poster is making it personal and takes away from the purpose of the thread.<<
I went back and double checked — as you know I know I am on double-secret probation as one of the few Crevo wars survivors (actually I might be considered a Zombie since I was reanimated). I see no direct disrespect to any poster.
I think I have been respectful to the posters and factual in addressing the issues in the thread.
If my analysis of my posts is otherwise, please provide guidance on where I made any post “personal.” It is possible to be blind in my own posts (this is a communication concept called “closure”) so I thank you in advance for your denotative help.
It was a hard 2 years when I was outside looking in. I really do respect my FRiends even when we differ on cause vs. causality.
Thanks, RM!
Where do you get this stuff? Did you even read my post? I mentioned one incident, with Abraham and the angels and a narrow testing purpose, and you turn it into fake fossils, etc.
I actually agree with you, which you would see if you read my pozt.
>>I actually agree with you, which you would see if you read my pozt.<<
And SF just won the World Series:
1) Yes I didn’t understand your post completely (but a reading of the post can certainly lead to my understanding of it).
2) SF just won the World Series — miracles do happen but how SF jacked it up is the true mystery...
‘...please link me to your “inconsistencies” so I can have a little fun at your expense.’
Having “a little fun at your expense” is personal and making the thread about another poster and moves away from discussing the issues.
>>Having “a little fun at your expense” is personal and making the thread about another poster and moves away from discussing the issues.<<
Ah, got it! Use a throwaway line in haste, repent in leisure.
My abject apologies to the forum participants as well as the kind gentleman/gentlewoman to whom my momentary lapse was directed.
“The Church teaches that the soul of each person (Adam, Eve, you, me) is the direct creation of God, not the result of any material process.”
So, God IS a “magician with a magic wand”? I.e., it is (was) God’s supernatural act of creation, not evolution, that gives us Adam.
Now, how do we get the evolutionists to agree that there were supernatural acts of special creation?
There's no entropy problem.
"Seems to me, as a scientist, that to get something from nothing it has to be created."
Doesn't follow at all. Yes, it's the ultimate question. Why is there something instead of nothing, and how did it get there? But that implies nothing about "creation". In fact creation doesn't solve it, it only bounces it down one more step. If it was created, where did the creator come from? Why is there a creator instead of nothing? It's still the same question.
“...Creating life from inorganic chemicals, directing history, etc. just adds to the wonder...”
Well put!! Excellent insight and God the Father is indeed the One Great Magician in a profound and awesome sense. The psalms contain many praises about the wonders of God’s creation ...
There is almost no fossil layer evidence of “transition” creatures manifesting one species becoming another. There are mutation fossils but these occur within species. It is VERY likely that God created His creatures separately using His “magic” inorganic chemical building blocks.
However, I am not anti science and don’t necessarily think that creation HAS to be taken “literally”. However, God can do anything, so why not the creation version?
Great post.
“There’s no entropy problem.”
Yes there is... entropy insists that there is a gradual decline into disorder. Evolution wouldn’t then work because mutations would on balance, be negative.
“If it was created, where did the creator come from?”
Well, the creator need not be a “thing” that would need to be created.
This is just the classic misunderstanding of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, which says that entropy in a closed system always increases.
But that applies to total entropy in the system. It doesn't mean there can't be pockets of lower entropy. More importantly, the Earth is not a closed system. Life on Earth is powered by the energy pouring in from the Sun. Not being a closed system, the 2nd law does not apply.
“the Earth is not a closed system.”
The universe is a closed system...
Yes, but so what? As I already said, the 2nd law doesn't prohibit local decreases of entropy. It only says that the total in the entire closed system always increases. The evolution of life on Earth does not violate that.
Then just say that about the universe or its precursor too. Again, adding the extra "creator" step solves nothing.
“the 2nd law doesn’t prohibit local decreases of entropy.”
“The evolution of life on Earth does not violate that.”
I think for evolution to work, would require Gibbs free energy. In other words entropy would have to more than just decrease, it would have to disappear. There’s your problem...
That doesn’t make any sense.
“That doesn’t make any sense.”
I’ll simplify it for you. Entropy means that order winds down into chaos. This happens, by the way, with all things on earth with the exception of things biological. Even with biological things, almost all mutations display entropy, in that healthy mutations are few and far between. Even with the body we die of old age because our DNA is effected by entropy and doesn’t copy it’s self perfectly (chaos).
The problem isn’t my understanding of entropy. Your statement makes no sense.
I’ve already explained why entropy is not a barrier to evolution. Simply asserting that it is anyway won’t make it so.
And most mutations can be harmful and bodies can die. Neither is an argument against evolution either.
Sorry, but you are wrong again! Now I can see why you will defend your church so much as you believe in your catechism of men so much more than the word of God. We wasn’t tasked to figure it out, but to Worship, Praise, and Serve God. Short list of Scripture: PSALM 100 and 33:1-4, John 4:23-24. Acts 2:46-47. Hebrews 13:15, Galatians 1:10. We don’t need to discover anything for all is given to us (Matthew 6:26). The reason for all your discovery is of this world you fill in the rest. 1 Corinthians 3:2
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