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Pope Francis: Judas was a sinner, but no worse than anyone elseelse
The Washinton Post ^ | October 29 2014 | Josephine Mckenna

Posted on 10/29/2014 3:04:39 PM PDT by Gamecock

Pope Francis says Judas Iscariot was not the only sinner among the Twelve Apostles but he was the one who “closed himself to love.”

In a homily during his morning Mass at the Vatican on Tuesday (Oct. 28), the pope spoke of the universality of sin while encouraging the faithful to fully immerse themselves in the Catholic Church and not simply stand on the threshold of their faith.

Francis has referred to the role of Judas several times since becoming pope in 2013. In May last year, he said that Judas had stood apart “in his solitude” and his selfishness grew to the point where he betrayed Jesus.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: popefrancis
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To: Secret Agent Man
Yes you are right, and I thought about the parable of Abraham and Lazarus. It was directed at a group of specific people listening to him then and there, I think, who scorned the beggar at the gate of the rich man. It was a warning that there would be an abyss they couldn't bridge while the beggar ended up "in Abraham's bosom". They wanted just a drop of water for their thirst. Is that it? That is without looking it up.

No doubt there were others. And even if they weren't directed at specific people in his presence, all applied to character types the world has commonly known up and through our time.

It is good to remember that prostitutes may reach Heaven before the self-righteous and I see and hear a lot of that. In myself judging people even if I try to temper it a little.

21 posted on 10/29/2014 7:53:09 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
The pope is calling all those who leave the church or disagree with it JUDAS. He is equating the catholic church with Christ Himself. That is what it looks like to me.

Not likely,

http://www.religionnews.com/2014/07/09/pope-francis-meets-u-s-televangelist-first-ever-papal-high-five-follows/

22 posted on 10/30/2014 6:06:33 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: tomsbartoo
It’s often quite difficult to know what to make of what this pope has to say.

Yes, the Interpreter-in-chief is much subject to interpretation.

Yes, we are not referring to "infallible teaching," but which itself is much subject to interpretation as seen by the sects who contend modern Rome has contradicted past teaching (and in some things i think they have a case ), while even which and how many infallible teachings there are, and what magisterial level others fall under, and their meaning, and allowance of dissent, if any.

But which is not as manifest as it is among evangelical types as RCs typically are not doctrine-intensive, and either render implicit assent to Rome or substantially ignore what she says on many issues, while those who hold most strongly to Scripture being the supreme and accurate authority testify to the greatest unity in the most basic values and beliefs, if declining. Pray.

23 posted on 10/30/2014 6:36:47 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
"He betrayed the Son of God. For 30 pieces of silver he not only rejected atonement for himself, but did not care if the rest of the world ended up hopelessly lost as a result."

But according to the story it was part of the plan and his purpose for being here. So Judas took an essential step to achieve that purpose.

24 posted on 10/30/2014 6:40:51 AM PDT by mlo
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
so what are the sins that aren't rejecting Jesus?
25 posted on 10/30/2014 6:42:06 AM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: mlo

Just because God is omnipotent and uses evil for good does not make evil good. It is still evil and rightly judged.

As in Romans where it says “what shall we say then, shall evil flourish that grace may abound? May it never be..”

Evil is profoundly evil and God never endorses or authors it. But in His power and sovereignty He uses it.


26 posted on 10/30/2014 10:11:15 AM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: Hegewisch Dupa

I am not one who believes that the only sin is rejecting Christ. Rejecting Christ as the only way of salvation is foolish and fatal. But when you stand before God without Christ as your substitute you will be punished for your own sins.

One does not alter the other.


27 posted on 10/30/2014 10:18:23 AM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: Hegewisch Dupa; Aliska; mlo; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; redleghunter; ...
so what are the sins that aren't rejecting Jesus?

Judas was already a thief, stealing money and even trying to get more money ostensibly to give to the poor, (Jn. 12:6) but his ultimate sin was that of willfully betraying Christ, even after being warned it would have been better off not to have been born if he did so. (Mk. 14:21) In so doing he evidenced that he was of the devil, as he "put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him," and thus was a devil. (Jn. 6:70; 13:2)

While this, as well as all things, was foreordained of God who knows all things, it does not remove the persons free will, acting according to their sinful nature, and in rejecting light and grace given them to varying degrees that they should not.

According to which they shall be judged, and as Judas was personally discipled by Christ, so he is highly accountable, and like cites which saw more grace than Sodom, (Lk. 10:12) and the Scribes and Pharisees, he shall receive the "greater damnation." (Mk. 12:40) Which also means Christians are more accountable than the lost. (cf. Lk. 12:48)

Now if popes engaged in such Scripturally substantiated teaching than it would find evangelical commendation, but we do not expect that since doctrinally Scripture is more of a mere servant to wrest support from for traditions.

28 posted on 10/30/2014 11:30:48 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

40 SINS THAT CAN SEND YOU TO HELL

29 posted on 10/30/2014 11:32:09 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Gamecock

They have to defend Judas somehow.

They have popes and clergy who some Catholics compare to him to justify their degenerate lifestyles.


30 posted on 10/30/2014 1:46:26 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Tax-chick
I’m really confused by this one. Aren’t we always being told that it’s impossible that the Virgin Mary was sinless, because “All have sinned and fallen short of God’s glory,” and “All our righteous deeds are as filthy rags.”?

And that's correct. 1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

But now we’re supposed to be shocked, SHOCKED! that the Pope observed that all the Apostles were sinners.

How so?

Why would that surprise us when we look at Peter, the one who denied Jesus and Thomas, who doubted Him?

Maybe it's only a surprise to Catholics that the Apostles are not sinless, but no one else I know is operating under that delusion because no one else I know thinks any human can not sin.

31 posted on 10/30/2014 1:51:34 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
After writing the above I get it now. The pope is calling all those who leave the church or disagree with it JUDAS. He is equating the catholic church with Christ Himself. That is what it looks like to me.

Catholics do that. They equate their church with Christ and equate rejecting it as rejecting Jesus.

The history of the RCC bears little resemblance to the perfect, sinless life of Jesus.

32 posted on 10/30/2014 1:53:46 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: tomsbartoo
Either Pope Francis is distorting this man’s history, or he is again being misquoted or mistranslated.

I don't recall any of the previous popes being so misunderstood and mistranslated.

This is almost a daily occurrence. Something just isn't right there.

When one person is so misunderstood by so many people so often, you have to consider that not everyone else in the world is wrong.

33 posted on 10/30/2014 1:56:18 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: ebb tide
“Judas was not the one who sinned the most: I don’t know who sinned the most ... Judas, poor man, is the one who closed himself to love and that is why he became a traitor. "

et: You know what's not obvious: How can Francis know Judas was not the one who sinned the most, yet he says he doesn't know who sinned the most.

Paul was the chiefest of sinners. He said so himself in the God breathed Scripture.

1 Timothy 1:15 A faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into this world to save sinners, of whom I am the chief.

Interesting that the pope doesn't know Scripture well enough to know that.

34 posted on 10/30/2014 2:00:25 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Hegewisch Dupa
so what are the sins that aren't rejecting Jesus?

That sin is by default rejecting Jesus is obviously a Catholic teaching because it certainly isn't found in Scripture.

We are told that we all sin, all the time and that if we claim we are without sin, we deceive ourselves.

If sinning = rejecting Jesus, then nobody COULD be saved.

Fortunately, that is not the case. We are not saved, lost, saved, lost....... in an on again, off again works based salvation.

When we are saved, we are saved, sealed by the Holy Spirit, transferred into the kingdom of the Son He loves.

So we still sin anyway? Sure. But it doesn't cost us our salvation that we have to earn back every time we slip up or even deliberately sin in a moment of weakness.

No parent disowns their child every time the child disobeys him or her. The child is still the child and loved as such, even in the midst of disobedience and rebellion.

It breaks the parent's heart, but no parent who loves their child disowns them for it.

Catholics need to learn about the love of a father for his children and the love of THE Father for HIS children because they just don't get it. The Catholic God is a harsh taskmaster.

35 posted on 10/30/2014 2:08:10 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom

Well said!


36 posted on 10/30/2014 3:13:14 PM PDT by tomsbartoo (St Pius X watch over us)
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To: Gamecock
Pope Francis: Judas was a sinner, but no worse than anyone elseelse

Fixed...

... but no worse than ELSIE

37 posted on 10/31/2014 3:55:35 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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