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To: Diamond
In Scripture, mortal and immortality refer only to the condition of the body. It is the body that is mortal, never the soul, or spirit.

Hello and thanks for your reply. In scripture, "soul" and "spirit" are not synonymous. A "soul", again based on scripture, is any living, breathing creature that has life whether it be animal or human.

For example:

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

This is the King James. But it's not the first instance of this word that's translated "soul" here. That actually occurs earlier...

Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

The words highlighted above are the same word translated soul earlier...the Hebrew "nepesh". It means basically a living breathing creature. There is no immortality to it unless one believes that whales and other living creatures also have immortal souls.

And a biblical "soul" can die:

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The souls is basically another term for life. And the opposite of life is death.

Another proof that a soul is not immortal is found here:

Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

In this case Christ is saying as Christians, we are promised a resurrection. People can destroy our bodies, but life ultimately belongs to God. And God can destroy our souls, our life. So "soul" is not immortal. It's simply another term for physical life.

"This mortal will put on immortality" is speaking of the resurrection of our body, not our spirit. A spirit cannot die. The term resurrection only applies to the body.

That's not what Paul says. He makes it very clear.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, "THE FIRST MAN ADAM BECAME A LIVING BEING." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 1Co 15:46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.

Verse 46 confirms it. There is no eternal spirit FIRST. There is a natural body. When Christ returns Christians are given the gift of eternal life. That's the spiritual. The first body is mortal, natural. We die.

Therefore 1 Timothy 6:16, referring to Christ, means the God/man alone has immortality as his nature, and being the firstfruit raised in the resurrection.

1Ti 6:14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing,
1Ti 6:15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
1Ti 6:16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

Since Christ has not returned with his gift of eternal life for Christians, nobody as of yet, except Christ, has eternal life or is immortal. Hence the statement: "whom no man has seen or can see". Because Christ hasn't returned yet to save our lives:

Heb 9:28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Christ came the first time for the forgiveness of our sins. When he comes again, it will be to give us eternal life, to save us from permanent death....salvation.

74 posted on 11/14/2014 8:25:05 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC
Thank you for your reply, but you are replying to things I did NOT state:

"soul" and "spirit" are not synonymous. A "soul", again based on scripture, is any living, breathing creature that has life whether it be animal or human.

I did NOT say "soul" and "spirit" are synonymous, only that the words in Scripture for "mortal" and "immortality" refer only to the condition of the body, never the soul or spirit.

I know it is common in English to speak of "immortal souls" but that usage is not very precise. I think part of the reason for this ambiguity is that in the Bible the word "soul" is used in different ways. So when you speak of "immortal souls" to negate the truth of Scripture that death is NOT the cessation of all activity, awareness and consciousness, you are still not being precise with the language of Scripture. What am suggesting to you on this point is that you clean up your language a little bit:

The words highlighted above are the same word translated soul earlier...the Hebrew "nepesh". It means basically a living breathing creature. There is no immortality to it unless one believes that whales and other living creatures also have immortal souls.

More to the point, regarding the nature of man you are mistakenly presupposing that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some part of the whole;

And a biblical "soul" can die:

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The souls is basically another term for life. And the opposite of life is death.

Your unstated assumptions seem to be that 'soul' equals physical life, and that 'life' refers to 'existence' while 'death' refers to 'nonexistence.' Yet the New Testament describes unbelievers while they were still existing in this world as 'dead' and believers as receiving 'life' at the moment of regeneration:
Luke 9:60
But He said to him, “Allow the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, go and proclaim everywhere the kingdom of God.”

John 5:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Ephesians 2:1-5
2 And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, [d]indulging the desires of the flesh and of the [e]mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead [f]in our transgressions, made us alive together [g]with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

1 Timothy 5:6
But she who gives herself to wanton pleasure is dead even while she lives.

1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

The righteous do not begin to exist when they are regenerated and the unrighteous are described as 'dead' while they still exist in this world.

Again, with reference to "soul" you are confusing a part for the whole. Just because a living person is referred to in some instances as a soul does not mean that in every case the word 'soul' means merely a living, breathing creature and that death therefore means nonexistence.

What do you do in those instances where Scripture does not comport with your presuppositions and your definitions of the respective Scriptural terms? For example, in one case a soul refers to a corpse, which does not fit your definition. There is a another instance (James 1:6) that refers to a "two-souled" or "double-souled" man, which also does not fit your definition. (Is the "two-souled" man two living, breathing creatures?) How about the one where the "congregation was one soul"? I think that what you will probably do is try to find a rescuing device that will comport with your Sadducean presuppositions, and I would guess that it won't matter how far afield one has to go to find it or how out-of-context it is stretched.

Cordially,

83 posted on 11/15/2014 11:01:05 AM PST by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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