Posted on 12/02/2014 3:01:54 AM PST by Biggirl
So you know what was in the heart of the Pope and the mufti? Wow!
You are on your own on this one.
If you didn't notice that was God speaking not me.
From your own personal interpretation of scripture taken out of context and you then expect that some how I agree with you on it. OK. The difference is God would know what they were thinking, you and I do not.
Explain to me how that was “taken out of context”.
Yeah, the typical cop out. Rant on but can’t defend from scripture.
What is wrong with praying for peace?
One can do it anywhere.
Is there a book of specifications as to what must or must no be present when one prays? Who wrote it and where can I get one?
Actually for me that's an easy one. I go with the original Greek. We could go word by word if you choose. Here's a preceding verse to understand who is being talked about.
2 John 1:7 because many leading astray did enter into the world, who are not confessing Jesus Christ coming in flesh; this one is he who is leading astray, and the antichrist.
The Muslims do not believe Jesus is the Christ who came in the flesh. Still think the pope should be praying with them?
How about pre-conciliar popes and Church Magisterium?
Well said. There is, unfortunately, a false perception that the Dogma ‘Extra Ecclesiam nulla Salus’ has changed (which it cannot) rather than been obscured.
"We must hold as of the faith, that out of the Apostolic Roman Church there is no salvation; that she is the only ark of safety, and whosoever is not in her perishes in the deluge; we must also, on the other hand, recognize with certainty that those who are invincible in ignorance of the true religion are not guilty for this in the eyes of the Lord. And who would presume to mark out the limits of this ignorance according to the character and diversity of peoples, countries, minds and the rest?"
Pius IX, December 9th, 1854
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"The Church is the one ark of salvation, and we must not be afraid to affirm it. You have often heard it said, “Outside the Church there is no salvation”--a dictum which offends contemporary minds. It is easy to believe that this doctrine is no longer in effect, that it has been dropped. It seems excessively severe.
Yet nothing, in fact, has changed; nothing can be changed in this area. Our Lord did not found a number of churches: He founded only One. There is only one Cross by which we can be saved, and that Cross has been given to the Catholic Church. It has not been given to others. To His Church, His mystical bride, Christ has given all graces. No grace in the world, no grace in the history of humanity is distributed except through her. Does that mean that no Protestant, no Muslim, no Buddhist or animist will be saved? No, it would be a second error to think that. Those who cry for intolerance in interpreting St. Cyprian's formula, “Outside the Church there is no salvation,” also reject the Creed, “I confess one baptism for the remission of sins,” and are insufficiently instructed as to what baptism is. There are three ways of receiving it: the baptism of water; the baptism of blood (that of the martyrs who confessed the faith while still catechumens) and baptism of desire."
An Open Letter to Confused Catholics By His Grace Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
Absurd to pretend that this has taken place in a vacuum. Islam is at war with the "dar al-harb". To lend credibility to adherents of a belief system which teaches, "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" (Quran (8:12)) by entering their worship space and praying side by side with them is to reinforce the foolish meme that Islam is a "religion of peace". Pope Francis: “The Koran is a book of peace. It is a prophetic book of peace.” His actions and commentary clearly indicate that he is either operating in a false reality or deliberately misrepresenting the truth.
I never denied that. It’s just not something I find helpful on a forum that is not a Catholic forum.
Arbitrary exclusion of Catholic beliefs from discussions pertaining to news reports concerning the Pope's controversial words and actions would seem rather pointless, since the two cannot be separated. Clarification of Catholic teachings (IOW, fact sharing) is relevant to such discussions.
Then you take them all on and I will back you up. I am kind of tired of going over the same ground. Perhaps I will just refrain. You have taken me to task. OK you win.
?
Apparently being Catholic is not Catholic enough. So I will keep my opinion to myself as you don’t feel that I am an adequate defender of the faith.
I wouldn't look at it like that. We are all called through our Confirmation to be defenders of the faith. We all have different charisms when it comes to defending the One, True, Catholic Faith. The Holy Spirit made sure of that. Part of that is growing and learning in our faith (a process which I am going through as well). We can't all be theologians (and that is not the expectation of the Church) but what is required of us is to be receptive when a fellow Catholic presents us with a fuller understanding of the teachings of the Church.
It is also incumbent upon the individual who has been blessed with a fuller understanding to ensure that they are transmitting the Truths of the Faith to their fellow Catholics in charity for the benefit of their Catholic brothers and sisters and not allowing personal opinion, or personal points of emphasis to interfere with that process. That's what protestants do.
And I'm not saying that is what is taking place here. but salvation is only through the Church, and it is in this context that the who and what constitutes the Church has to be properly understood. What is the Church? Who is in the Church? Who is saved, even if invincibly ignorant. Who is imperfectly grafted into the Body of Christ, etc. This is why we have a Church so that these questions can be answered.
“I will back you up” vs “Perhaps I will just refrain”.
Which is it? The Catholic martyrs didn’t refrain; why do you chose to do so?
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