Replies

I never said that someone ever saw the Father. I said that in the OT sometimes God appeared as “visions or manifestations”. Clearly of other things, “like the hiring bush for example”. But not the Father Himself. I never said that.

In Gen 3:8-9 it’s easy to read too much into the word “walking” but really the word to focus on there (as far as any manifestation of God goes) is the word “voice”. Why? Because it says “voice of the Lord God walking in the garden”. As it’s “plainly written” there the “logical” conclusion to make is that the voice of God “walked” in the Garden. But this makes no sense.

This is if we read it with just the English language in mind though. It makes more sense when we realize the word for “walking” there is “hithpael” (transliterated) which means here, in Gen 3:8, “to traverse, to walk about” or “to go for oneself” or “to walk up and down”. See here : http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H1980&t=KJV

So we can see that in this verse the verb is not meant to be taken literally, as if the voice of God had two legs and was walking about. It’s meant to be taken as simply the voice of God moved through the Garden. This is truly the “plain reading”, not what you suggest. Otherwise, the Jews would have been worshipping a visible incarnate God long before Christ. Not to mention that if there were multiple incarnations of Christ the one we are familiar with would at least be diminished in meaning.

There was and is only one Incarnation of Christ, who was and is fully man and fully God. If you are saying that in Gen 3:8-9 God was fully man then too, then this goes against 2,000 years of Christian teaching. It was clearly some manifestation of the one God in Gen 3:8-9, but not fully Man. But, believe what you want.

Don’t say though, as many other non Catholics here do when a Catholic dares disagree with their interpretation of Scripture, that you “are just quoting the Word of God” and thus by implication I’m not.

No, you are giving your interpretation of the Word. Don’t conflate that with the actual Word. It’s beneath you.

I never said that someone ever saw the Father.

I never said you did.

I said that in the OT sometimes God appeared as “visions or manifestations”. Clearly of other things, “like the hiring bush for example”. But not the Father Himself. I never said that.

I agree with you, at times the Father did manifest Himself in various ways. But again, I never said you said the Father did Himself.

My words about the Father to which you refer are merely excerpts from the basis upon which I used to study the Scripture, allow the Holy Spirit to guide my understanding, as I came to the conclusion that it was the pre-Incarnate Christ who appeared in the Garden to Adam and Eve as the Lord God.

God is the God of logic and there are often times when studying the Scriptures requires logic to reach logical conclusions (and I was sharing some of mine with you so you would not be wondering where I 'came up' with my statement).

No, it says: "And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden."

It's not the voice, it's the actions. They were likely acquainted with regular 'walks of the Lord God in the Garden', except this time, it is THEY who hid themselves, not the Lord God. Why would they hide themselves from a voice unless they believed the Lord God was approaching? They heard Him walking. That means, they heard footsteps

Secondly, and more to the point, why did they hide themselves THIS TIME? Because they sinned. The Lord God, the pre-incarnate Christ, knew where they were physically, yet He asked, "Where Are You"? This dual meaning was mostly as to their spiritual state. Another answer He knew, but He wanted them to figure that out, now, too.

Disbelieving that the God of the Universe, Christ the Creator, who appeared to mankind through a virgin birth some 4000 years later, could not and would not appear to His perfect creatures prior to The Fall, given that the Word plainly says, "they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden," is what is illogical. Thinking that Christ who created Adam and Eve so He could have a relationship with them, then not appear, but only appeared to sinful man who rebelled against Him 4,000 years later, makes no sense.

If you are saying that in Gen 3:8-9 God was fully man then too, then this goes against 2,000 years of Christian teaching

"Fully Man"? Aren't those your words (again)?
Yes.

I don't put Christ into a box of limitations. He is fully God and can take on the attributes of a physical body in the form of a man, or could appear as an Angel, or some other form, as He chooses and when He chooses.

Here's the thing: you are entitled to your opinion, have at it, but not your own facts, nor using your own words and attributing them to me.

If and when your opinion, church doctrine or dogma, the Pope, a preacher, an evangelist, contradicts the Word of God, then I am free to point out the contradiction, as I have and will continue.

you are giving your interpretation of the Word. Don’t conflate that with the actual Word. It’s beneath you

I have been blessed to have been studying the Word of God now for over 40 years under Godly and knowledgeable pastors recognized nationally and world wide, as well as tutors and mentors only known to my locale, but who are as strong in their understanding Scripture of any. Their respected opinions and leadership have helped bring me to my Spiritual maturity, along with the Holy Spirit, of course.

It's beneath you to attempt to make it appear as though I fabricate what is opinion versus what is in the text. I do not do such things and do not need to do such things; I have no agenda and am not trying to elevate myself or any denomination. My purpose is to elevate Christ, the Father, and the Holy Spirit.