[af_vet_1981]

Faith in God, not man. If some man comes to me and says, Christ is here, or there, or in some secret chamber (a monstrance perhaps), does Christ allow me to believe them? Doesn't John say test the spirits? Doesn't Paul commend the Bereans for fact-checking ... Paul? Fact check an Apostle?? Yes!!

1. Faith in the LORD Jesus Christ that he left a visible, historic, real, holy catholic apostolic church that reaches to the ends of the earth since his resurrection. That is not faith in men but rather faith in God.
2. Yes, John does, which is one more reason to ask people about their affiliations as you weigh their comments.
3. No, Paul does not commend the Bereans for fact checking. Perhaps you are thinking about the Romans whose faith was spoken if throughout the whole world. Luke tells us the Bereans Jews were more noble than the Thessalonican Jews because they had willing minds to receive the word that Paul preached. Their searching the scriptures daily to see if those things were so added nothing to Paul's gospel, that Messiah needed to suffer and rise from the dead (Isaiah), and Yeshua is Messiah (Apostolic witness). It was a sign they were ready to receive the truth rather than contend with it. We could contrast their behavior with that of others who claim the name Bereans but use their studies to contend against the truth. Paul told the truth. Searching the scriptures daily and fact checking does not make one able to receive the word else we would have another million Jews on fire for Messiach tomorrow.

[Springfield Reformer]

Faith in the LORD Jesus Christ that he left a visible, historic, real, holy catholic apostolic church that reaches to the ends of the earth since his resurrection. That is not faith in men but rather faith in God.

The Ecclesia Jesus is building is defined by Him, not by you or I.   Whereas that line you provide is a rich study of denominationally charged assumptions and definitions, all evolved over centuries of use by the denomination they are designed to serve, the authority for which derives from a historical argument that can't be defended. No sir, my faith is not in uninspired, and provably inaccurate lists of supposed popes.  

Do you see the circularity here?  Should I by faith accept the words of men, so that I may know the words of God, when I already have the words of God, which reveal the falsity of those words of men?  By God's grace, not in a million years.  

Yes, John does, which is one more reason to ask people about their affiliations as you weigh their comments.

Affiliations are but a fraction of the analysis.  In some cases they can be misleading.  You find someone is a Baptist and think, OK, I know where he's coming from.  Then you find out he's also a high degree mason and is cuddly with all the wrong people.  It happens.  I think a much better test is to find out what people actually believe and teach. A hundred years ago, the paper confessions had more meaning.  These days you just don't know until you have the conversation. I'm talking Baptist, Reformed, Lutheran, Catholic, etc.  

I keep mentioning my relatives up north, but why not mention them again, as it pertains.  They are Catholics in good standing and they favor abortion and the elevation of Mary to coequal status with Jesus as a matter of feminist social justice.  Would I get that from the CCC?  Nope.  You don't really know where someone is coming from until you dig past the superficial affiliations. I'm sorry it's not simple and easy.  I'd like it to be simple and easy, because that appeals to me.  But it's not the way it is.  John didn't say test the spirits by asking them for their denominational passcard.  

No, Paul does not commend the Bereans for fact checking. Perhaps you are thinking about the Romans whose faith was spoken if throughout the whole world. Luke tells us the Bereans Jews were more noble than the Thessalonican Jews because they had willing minds to receive the word that Paul preached.

You are right that it was Luke and not Paul directly commending the Bereans.  An error of haste on my part.  But it presses credulity to deny that fact-checking was an inherent part of their active response to the Gospel.  Yes, they were willing to receive it, but not without validation.  There were many schools of thought selling their wares, just as now in many ways.  They were commended both for their willingness to believe the truth, as you point out, and in the same breath for their willingness to validate that message against the revelation they had already accepted, Scripture.  Why? Because both properties flow from the same spiring, a deep love for God and an unwilling to either ignore His truth or let it be corrupted by falsehood.  It doen't matter how good your offense is if you don't have a defense.

Their searching the scriptures daily to see if those things were so added nothing to Paul's gospel, that Messiah needed to suffer and rise from the dead (Isaiah), and Yeshua is Messiah (Apostolic witness). It was a sign they were ready to receive the truth rather than contend with it. We could contrast their behavior with that of others who claim the name Bereans but use their studies to contend against the truth. Paul told the truth. Searching the scriptures daily and fact checking does not make one able to receive the word else we would have another million Jews on fire for Messiach tomorrow.

I never said or remotely hinted that fact-checking adds any content to the Gospel.  I have no idea how you got to that thought.  Fact checking does the opposite.  It prevents theological vandals from defacing the Gospel by foisting on the unwary information not found in God's own presentation of the Gospel.  And true, fact-checking doesn't save souls.  Believing God's word does.  But fact checking is part of the duty schedule for serious Christians.  It just goes with the territory.  There is a deceiver in the world and we must be on guard.  Again, I'm sorry that's the way it is, and someday we won't have to worry about such things.  For now, we do.

So if someone comes along and says, "believe my list of names and you shall know the truth,"  I'm going to want those facts checked.  I don't want to get caught short on that day having sold my birthright for a lousy list of names.

Peace,

SR

[Elsie]

1. Faith in the LORD Jesus Christ that he left a visible, historic, real, holy catholic apostolic church that reaches to the ends of the earth since his resurrection.

FACT that the Catholics severely messed up seven churches in Asia; as recorded by JOHN.