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To: ealgeone
You do understand the catholic bible has this translated wrong?

It is not wrong. To use "favor" instead of "grace" is Protestant obfuscation intended to trivialize the passage. In Pauline writings, for example, you would not translate "χαρις" or its derivatives anything but "grace". But in this episode all of a sudden, the Protestant translations drop to "favor". That is typical Protestant mariophobic sleaze.

3,306 posted on 12/27/2014 3:23:28 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex; ealgeone
you would not translate "χαρις" or its derivatives anything but "grace".

Actually, I'd prefer "favor" or "kindness" in as many cases as possible.  The problem you'd have is the term "grace" is so charged with theological meaning as a result of twenty centuries of debate that it would leave quite a few folks confused to use something different, and that is not a good outcome for a translator.  Louw-Nida provides a good semantic reference point:
88.66 χαριτόω; χάριςa, ιτος f: to show kindness to someone, with the implication of graciousness on the part of the one showing such kindness—‘to show kindness, to manifest graciousness toward, kindness, graciousness, grace.’
χαριτόω: κεχαριτωμένη, ὁ κύριος μετὰ σοῦ ‘the Lord is with you, you to whom (the Lord) has shown kindness’ Lk 1:28; ἧς ἐχαρίτωσεν ἡμᾶς ἐν τῷ ἠγαπημένῳ ‘which he has graciously shown us in the one he loves’ Eph 1:6.χάριςa: ἐξῆλθεν παραδοθεὶς τῇ χάριτι τοῦ κυρίου ὑπὸ τῶν ἀδελφῶν ‘he left, being commended by the brothers to the kindness of the Lord’ Ac 15:40.
So a good alternative that doesn't buy into the abuses heaped on "grace" by Rome, but which nonetheless is not the cold steel of mere "favor," is the term "kindness," which, as Louw-Nida indicates, reflects more on the disposition of the grantor than the benfactor.  Grace should always point us to the goodness of God, not ourselves.  "Kindness" catches that extra bit of Pauline flavoring, that this favor is not deserved.  Certainly in Protestant modes of thought this is the emphasis, and "favor" by itself does not fully capture that aspect of the term.

However, I think it debases the conversation and misrepresents the holy thinking of a great many good believers to take this term of affection we have for God, which we have acquired by legitimate lexicography, and posture it as "sleaze."  Frankly, it is incomprehensible to me why anybody has to go there in these conversations.  What purpose does it accomplish?  Who is done good by it?  Does it comport with the wisdom from above?
James 3:17-18  But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.  (18)  And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
Peace,

SR




3,320 posted on 12/27/2014 5:24:18 PM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: annalex

Hail M-ry, Mother of GOD...


3,348 posted on 12/28/2014 5:30:51 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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