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To: .45 Long Colt
it’s by grace, not sacrament.

Why did it take people 1500 years to decide that "gift/grace" and "sacrament" were somehow opposed to each other?

The Armenians have seven sacraments, the Ethiopians have seven sacraments, the Copts have seven sacraments. The first two were never under Roman political domination, and the last was just barely under it, so the "Constantine corrupted Christianity" argument falls apart. Real Christianity, the kind the Apostles taught, had seven sacraments from the beginning.

Why would Jesus teach, e.g., baptism anyway? You profess him to be God, so he would have to have known he would be utterly misunderstood and a billion people would follow a mistaken idea of his teachings straight to hell ... yet he never clarified that baptism was just a nice, but powerless and superficial, way to show the world you like him. Never! (See Mark 16:16) What kind of a "Savior" is that??

The contradiction is one you have to live with. Either Jesus is God and Catholics are mostly right, or Jesus was a well-meaning fool and Catholics are completely wrong. Pick one or the other; you can't have it both ways.

Every covenant in the OT is sealed by an oath. The word "sacrament" comes from the Latin word for "oath". Think about it. Who's swearing the oath? It isn't only the recipient (see Hebrews 16:13).

9 posted on 01/15/2015 4:14:49 AM PST by Campion
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To: Campion
Why do they persist in trying to show us we are wrong? I feel absolutely no compunction to go to a Non-Catholic Church ever. Yet when I pass by a Catholic Church I must stop in and say hello, even when there are no earthly people there. Someone waits for me. :)
11 posted on 01/15/2015 5:07:48 AM PST by defconw (If not now, WHEN?)
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To: Campion
Why would Jesus teach, e.g., baptism anyway? You profess him to be God, so he would have to have known he would be utterly misunderstood and a billion people would follow a mistaken idea of his teachings straight to hell ... yet he never clarified that baptism was just a nice, but powerless and superficial, way to show the world you like him. Never! (See Mark 16:16) What kind of a "Savior" is that??

Your own proof text reveals the answer for you...

Can you not understand what you are reading???

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

He that believes and is baptized will be saved...
He that does not believe yet is baptized will be damned...

Water baptism does nothing toward your salvation...It is the repentance/believe that does the job... It is not as difficult as you seem to make it...Just pay attention to what you are reading and compare scripture with scripture...

Every covenant in the OT is sealed by an oath. The word "sacrament" comes from the Latin word for "oath". Think about it. Who's swearing the oath? It isn't only the recipient (see Hebrews 16:13).

Heb 13:16 But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

There is no oath spoken of there...Perhaps you picked the wrong scripture...This speaks of the sacrifice we are to make...And what is that sacrifice???

Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

There's no question as to what is being said here...

12 posted on 01/15/2015 6:19:01 AM PST by Iscool
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To: Campion

The Christ Jesus I trust saves to the uttermost. He saved me completely. He didn’t make me jump through hoops or earn His grace, He saved me from beginning to end. He was the author and finisher of my faith. Yes, I was baptized, but that was an act of obedience, not a box I had to check with the Lord. HE is THE SAVIOR, not the baptismal water.

Also, if you believe salvation by grace was a novel concept of the Reformers you have been misled. If that is what Rome has taught you, chalk it up to another lie. Rome used to murder people who held the biblical view.

I don’t have any desire to go round and round over Roman Catholicism here at Free Republic. The problem is the propaganda for Rome is never-ending. As a Christian it is very hard to let it go when I know people have been snared by false religion. I have studied Rome at length and know it’s a works religion, not biblical Christianity. What makes it dangerous is that it is right in certain areas.

“Discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is knowing the difference between right and almost right.” - Charles Haddon Spurgeon

I urge you to listen to prayerfully listen to the sermons I linked on the gospel. One explains what the gospel is while the other explains the characteristics of the false gospel.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


15 posted on 01/15/2015 6:34:43 AM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: Campion
Why did it take people 1500 years to decide that "gift/grace" and "sacrament" were somehow opposed to each other?

Because until the Reformation, people were forbidden to read God's Word.
21 posted on 01/15/2015 9:43:46 AM PST by Old Yeller (Civil rights are for civilized people.)
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