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To: mikeus_maximus

Point to ponder:

John 3:36:

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.”

According to the Lord Jesus (and to St. John), the opposite of “believe” is not “disbelieve”; the opposite of “believe” (which is a far more “loaded” word than our English translations and ears usually hear) is to “disobey”.

Mere intellectual belief will not save. Belief coupled with OBEDIENCE saves. Scripture is replete with examples.

“Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord’, and not do what I say?” (Luke 6:46) Doing what the Lord says is a work, yes?

“He who endures to the end will be saved.” (Matthew 10:22, repeated verbatim in 24:13) Endurance to the end (which will save) is a work, yes?

Honestly: if someone says, “Faith alone saves, but that faith will be a false [non-saving] faith without good works”, isn’t that what logicians call “a distinction without a difference”?


8 posted on 02/06/2015 12:49:29 PM PST by paladinan (Rule #1: There is a God. Rule #2: It isn't you.)
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To: paladinan

Good points. Thanks for your thoughts. “He who has an ear...”


10 posted on 02/06/2015 1:22:37 PM PST by mikeus_maximus
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To: paladinan

Oh, and you might add Eph. 2:8-10 to your explanation. It is possible to reconcile faith and works, and Paul does it nicely.


11 posted on 02/06/2015 1:27:17 PM PST by mikeus_maximus
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To: paladinan
Honestly: if someone says, “Faith alone saves, but that faith will be a false [non-saving] faith without good works”, isn’t that what logicians call “a distinction without a difference”?

I saw this on a related thread and it sums up the distinction nicely. Can you see the difference between these two?

Faith = Salvation + Works

Faith + Works = Salvation

In both cases, without works the equations fail. In the first equation, without works, there wasn't True Faith. In the second equation, without works, you haven't earned salvation.

12 posted on 02/06/2015 2:06:46 PM PST by Tao Yin
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To: paladinan
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.”

According to the Lord Jesus (and to St. John), the opposite of “believe” is not “disbelieve”; the opposite of “believe” (which is a far more “loaded” word than our English translations and ears usually hear) is to “disobey”.

I think you are a little confused...

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Act_16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Mere intellectual belief will not save. Belief coupled with OBEDIENCE saves. Scripture is replete with examples.

“Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord’, and not do what I say?” (Luke 6:46) Doing what the Lord says is a work, yes?

“He who endures to the end will be saved.” (Matthew 10:22, repeated verbatim in 24:13) Endurance to the end (which will save) is a work, yes?

The bible is also replete with scripture that tells you salvation is without works, and by grace thru faith, without works...

The only way to justify your position is to reject the half of scriptures that don't agree with you...You have failed at this:

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

When you find scripture that contradicts what you are reading you can't dump the scripture, you gotta keep reading...

22 posted on 02/06/2015 9:01:06 PM PST by Iscool
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