Posted on 02/20/2015 3:22:59 PM PST by NKP_Vet
There are no ritual laws.
>>you then need to explain why Jesus would command us to SIMULATE the commission of that sin,<<
I need to explain no such thing. He didn't teach to "simulate" anything. He instituted a memorial meal. "In remembrance" of His broken body and shed blood. A meal to remind us of His once for all sacrifice.
>>Show me where Jesus said that we should SIMULATE committing adultery, or SIMULATE committing blasphemy.<<
What kind of nonsense is that? Is that some sort of diversionary mind game? You keep bringing up this "simulate" word. I don't know of anyone who thinks we "simulate" anything.
>>Show me somewhere, anywhere, where Jesus told us to SIMULATE the commission of sins.<<
Show me somewhere, anywhere that I have ever used the word "simulate". If you can't then let's dispense with the diversionary straw man shall we?
We have been through this before Arthur. The eating of blood was a sin. Even in the Old Testament sacrifices the priests were specifically told that the blood was not to be eaten but to be spilled on the ground. That is exactly what happened to the blood of Jesus. None of the others on those crosses were pierced.
Christ didn't say to keep offering perpetually. He said to "remember". The continual offering is a denial of the "once for all" sufficiency. God didn't ask for a "continual offering".
Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
"One sacrifice" for sins. Not a continual sacrifice or offering. The "daily sacrifice" of the Catholic mass is not from God. Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father. He is NOT being continually sacrificed. Jesus is not paying the price. He paid the price.
Acts 17:29 Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.
Have you ever given any thought to what Heaven IS?
Do you really think that God must DECEIVE people in Heaven in order to make them happy? Because that’s what you just said.
You need to show where I said God deceives people.
If THAT is true, then there's no law against drinking blood. In which case, your oft-repeated argument for why Jesus COULD NOT want us to drink his blood explodes.
See the first Council of Jerusalem in Acts. They address this issue.
Not those following God's laws and commandments. Let's see you evidence.
But Jesus and the apostles were still under the old law. You still have Jesus sinning and causing others to do so.
Well, let's do that. Catholic documentation claims the the priest offers the sacrifice of Christ and that the people "participate" and "offer the Divine Victim to God". Throughout scripture both in the Old Testament and the New Testament there was only one person who was authorized to enter the Holy of Holys and to offer the sacrifice and that was the High Priest. Jesus is that High Priest and He entered "once for all".
Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
The arrogance of the Catholic Church to presume to take the place of the Hight Priest is blasphemy. To claim that both a common priest and even the people "participate" in the immolation/sacrifice of Christ is contrary to both the Old Testament and the New Testament. Saul tried it and it didn't turn out well for him either.
In other words, Scripture NEVER teaches saints in heaven pray for us, as you specifically claimed.
In short, what you posted is false.
“Sola scriptura is an irrational, self-contradictory idea, for the simple reason that it is taught nowhere in Scripture. Sola scriptura is the “man-made doctrine” par excellence.”
Based on your earlier false claim, it does not appear you are very familiar with Scripture or its claims for itself.
The Catholic Encyclopedia allows that a further reinforcement of Marian devotion
“was derived from the cult of the angels, which, while pre-Christian in its origin, was heartily embraced by the faithful of the sub-Apostolic age. It seems to have been only as a sequel of some such development that men turned to implore the intercession of the Blessed Virgin. This at least is the common opinion among scholars, though it would perhaps be dangerous to speak too positively. Evidence regarding the popular practice of the early centuries is almost entirely lacking...,” (Catholic Encyclopedia > Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary)
You said that those who are in heaven are unaware of our troubles here on earth, because otherwise they would be sad and anguished.
In other words: God has to keep the blessed in heaven deceived in order for them to be happy.
If defending the proposition that the saints do not pray for us requires concocting demented claims like that, perhaps it needs rethinking.
Saint Paul tells us to offer petitions and intercessions for one another. Nobody has ever explained to me why it is good, holy, and loving for my mother to pray for me here on earth, but the moment she dies, praying for me is an attack on Jesus Christ.
The notion that my mother, in Baltimore, is filled with love and concern for me, and prays for me, and then, my mother, in Heaven, turns into a doorstop, is preposterous, ugly, and sick.
The photograph doesn't show Cardinal Bertone "offering incense to" anybody or anything. The photograph shows Cardinal Bertone swinging a censer.
Cardinal Bertone knows that the blood of JPII is not God.
Another way to say this is: Cardinal Bertone is not a moron.
Or they could simply have no interest and concentrate on praising God.
>>If defending the proposition that the saints do not pray for us requires concocting demented claims like that,<<
No, demented would be to assume anything about what we are not told about and making up carnal reasoning. The focus should be praising God, not looking back. Think Lot's wife.
>>but the moment she dies, praying for me is an attack on Jesus Christ.<<
That's right. It's the Holy Spirit that helps true believers pray.
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Now why would you blaspheme the Holy Spirit by thinking some human can do better?
>>The notion that my mother, in Baltimore, is filled with love and concern for me, and prays for me, and then, my mother, in Heaven, turns into a doorstop, is preposterous, ugly, and sick.<<
Actually to be so arrogant to think that people on earth are more important to pay attention to for those in heaven rather then God is preposterous, ugly, and sick. It also demands attention from them that they should be focusing on God alone.
All your arguments—like the arguments of all the anti-Catholics on FR—are directed against cartoonish distortions of Catholic teaching.
Nothing could be more boring.
Which was the point of the Original Article.
Your worries about the blessed in Heaven being hampered by "divided attention" (or, as another anti-Catholic argued, Mary couldn't pay attention to our prayers because they would be arriving by the millions per second) betrays an extremely materialistic, childish level of thought.
The Two Great Commandments: 1) Love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your strength, and with all your mind. 2) Love your neighbor as yourself.
We are to obey BOTH of these commandments while still on earth. THEY DO NOT CONFLICT.
Show me where in Scripture it is taught that the blessed in Heaven CANNOT and DO NOT obey the Second Great Commandment.
Here’s an interesting question for you:
Is using incense an act of worship—i.e., giving adoration that is due to God alone?
When the gifts (the bread and wine) are placed on the altar, they and the altar are incensed. This is BEFORE the Eucharistic Prayer—i.e., BEFORE the Consecration.
AFTER the Consecration, when the bread and wine have become the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, and they ARE ADORED—they are NEVER INCENSED.
So. No, Cardinal Bertone is not ADORING or WORSHIPING the blood of JPII.
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