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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

AUGUSTINE SAYS YOU CAN LOSE YOUR SALVATION (i.e. CAN LOSE JUSTIFYING GRACE)

“But if someone already regenerate and justified should, of his own will, relapse into his evil life, certainly that man cannot say: “I have not received”; because he lost the grace he received from God and by his own free choice went to evil.” (Augustine, “Admonition and Grace, A.D. 426 aut 427

St Augustine also believed there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church..........


44 posted on 02/24/2015 4:32:31 AM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; stonehouse01; All
This will be a post responding to two papists in one go (one stone for two Papists, we can say):

AUGUSTINE SAYS YOU CAN LOSE YOUR SALVATION (i.e. CAN LOSE JUSTIFYING GRACE)

Read more carefully:

"when the feeling of delight has been imparted through. the same grace, the human will is formed to endure; it is strengthened with unconquerable fortitude; controlled by grace, it never will perish, but, if grace forsake it, it will straightway fall; by the Lord's free mercy it is converted to good, and once converted it perseveres in good; the direction of the human will toward good, and after direction its continuation in good, depend solely upon God's will, not upon any merit of man."

Since Augustine believes in baptismal regeneration, he does indeed believe that someone who has been regenerated (justified) can lose their salvation. Augustine believes, however, that whether a person perseveres or not depends entirely upon God's grace, not on their merits. The gift of perseverence is given only to the elect, and to those so given none can ever fall.

The Roman Catholic view is that damnation is always possible, and that the determining factor is not the grace of God (whom you claim gives grace to all), but the will of man.

Augustine's view, therefore, is entirely Reformed.

Notice also that you didn't dispute the L or Double Predestination. Obviously, if you uphold either of these Reformed Principles, the doctrine of Final Perseverance is logically necessary.

Now to Stonehouse01:

ertainly the writings listed are not the least bit problematic.

Only if you are a Catholic who doesn't know anything about Catholic or Reformed theology. Notice in your post you didn't actually challenge anything I said, but just threw out a strawman about transubstantiation. But even on Transubstantiation and on the doctrine of the Eucharist Augustine comes out Reformed:

“They said therefore unto Him, What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” For He had said to them, “Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for that which endureth unto eternal life.” “What shall we do?” they ask; by observing what, shall we be able to fulfill this precept? “Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He has sent.” This is then to eat the meat, not that which perisheth, but that which endureth unto eternal life. To what purpose dost thou make ready teeth and stomach? Believe, and thou hast eaten already. (Augustine, Tractate 25)

This not only annihilates transubstantiation (for the eating occurs through faith without any physical eating), but Augustine also affirms salvation through faith in Jesus Christ and not through physical eating.

By the way, here is a quote from sermon 227 (the same one you quoted), which rules out the idea of transubstantiation (that is, that the bread and wine is the actual body and bread of Jesus Christ in the form of something else, as opposed to Christ being spiritually present through the faith of the believer):

“What you can see passes away, but the invisible reality signified does not pass away, but remains. Look, it’s received, it’s eaten, it’s consumed. Is the body of Christ consumed, is the Church of Christ consumed, are the members of Christ consumed? Perish the thought! Here they are being purified, there they will be crowned with the victor’s laurels. So what is signified will remain eternally, although the thing that signifies it seems to pass away. So receive the sacrament in such a way that you think about yourselves, that you retain unity in your hearts, that you always fix your hearts up above. Don’t let your hope be placed on earth, but in heaven. Let your faith be firm in God, let it be acceptable to God. Because what you don’t see now, but believe, you are going to see there, where you will have joy without end.” (Augustine, Ser. 227)

Thus when you accuse me of being the MSM, in fact, that is exactly what you just did, only giving "part of the story."

66 posted on 02/24/2015 4:02:28 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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