Posted on 03/23/2015 2:14:57 PM PDT by RnMomof7
As I have told you before, thee are only two non-Catholics on these threads that are actually Christians so prot opinions are worth what we pay for them.
As I have told you before, thee are only two non-Catholics on these threads that are actually Christians so prot opinions are worth what we pay for them.
I sure hope you’re not an attorney.
“As I have told you before, the(r)e are only two non-Catholics on these threads that are actually Christians” I’m curious as to how you KNOW this?
She is a super-hero who will single-handedly save the world, and how dare you claim they aren’t Biblical
You mean like this??
Bernadine: …all gifts, all virtues, and all graces are dispensed by the hands of Mary to whomsoever, when, and as she pleases. O Lady, since thou art the dispenser of all graces, and since the grace of salvation can ONLY come through thy hands, OUR SALVATION DEPENDS ON THEE.
By paying attention to the comments made and not made on these threads.
There are some posters who are in denial of reality when it confronts them.
“Do you see my point?”
Your point seems to be that you don’t understand the difference in context between the two sentences. In the one you quote, the word “death” creates an absolute impediment to the natural reading, forcing an alternative reading. However, absent that modifier, the natural reading is always preferred. For example, let’s change that reference to anything other than “death” and see how it reads:
“And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child till the day of her wedding.”
“And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child till the next month.”
“And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child till the harvest.”
Obviously, only the special case of death, which prevents the most natural reading, is changing the meaning of the phrase. I’ll offer a further example of how this is the only reasonable way to read such a phrase. Imagine I walk in to a police station and say to the desk sergeant:
“I didn’t kill my wife till I caught her with another man.”
Do you think the officer would not naturally believe that I had just confessed to murder?
Sometimes, these threads offer up interesting irrationalities ...
“And Catholic Still don’t Worship Mary, That is reserved for God ALONE. Repeating a falsity will NEVER make it true.”
Well, no. As we have repeatedly seen, if you repeat it long enough it becomes tradition, at which point its authority is on par with scripture.
I was not making any argument, so I have nothing to lose. I was merely describing a group of FReepers.
Ted Cruz has received a donation from me as well. I don’t care about his brand of Christianity. He doesn’t pick fights with other believers. He understands the real enemy.
“In short: given that the woman obviously gave birth to Jesus, and since Revelation does NOT clearly identify the woman with anyone else, it simply makes sense to go with the plain meaning of Scripture—i.e. that this is Mary, in Revelation 11:19-12:17.”
Incorrect. The woman is a symbol in a prophecy, so there is no “plain meaning” there. We have a clear example, in the very same book, of a woman being used as a symbol in prophecy: the harlot, called “Babylon the Great”. In that case, Revelation interprets itself and tells us explicitly that the woman symbolizes a city, not an individual person.
So, you cannot assume that a “woman” in a prophetic vision is a human female individual, any more than you can assume that a dragon in a prophecy is a real dragon, or a lion in a prophecy is a real lion. Clearly, if you try to read the entire prophecy literally as you read “the woman” literally, it quickly devolves into nonsense.
Truly it is comical, for paladinan insists that we read that “the woman” as the literal mother of Christ, which would mean, if we were being consistent, she would also have to be the literal mother of all believers. Far from remaining a virgin, under that interpretation, Mary would have to be quite the prolific breeder.
Excellent points! I find it curious how many will insist that passage is speaking specifically of Mary yet will deny that she "cried out in pain as she was about to give birth." (Rev. 12:2). It was because of Eve's sin that God decreed of women “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children." (Gen. 3:16). Some theologians have even declared Mary did not have a normal painful delivery -going so far as to say she remained a physical virgin (which would have been physically impossible).
I agree with your points that there is a blatant inconsistency in asserting Revelation 12's "woman" is Mary. If people are being honest, they will have to admit this as well.
Mrs. Don-o...We have all posted far to many times prayers to Mary from Catholic sites where the prayers to Mary are NOT for intercession, but for the divine services that only God can provide...
We have posted what John Paul 11 prayed to Mary, that she saved his life, that he gives his entire life to Mary...
The only thing that seems to be implied is, for example, when you pray to one of your saints to find your car keys is that the presumed connection between the saint and Jesus automatically gives that saint Godly attributes...
This intercession stuff is ridiculous, Jesus does not need the help of mortals - especially dead ones
Not true at all...Pray thee and pray to have always had different definitions...And still do...The dishonestly of many Catholics constantly muddles that difference when confronted with praying TO your saints and Mary...
Pray to has always meant worship while pray thee has always been a a request...And still does...
I find it baffling that you guys love to add things to scripture that do not exist...
So God divvies out his divine attributes amongst his saints and Jesus' mother...They chose who gets what and God does what??? How many saints do they have you guys praying to now??? They add more every day...
And how do you know God does this...Did he leave word in his Holy Scripture??? NOPE...Not a single word...In fact, Jesus contradicts any such nonsense...
How do you know any of these saints are actually in heaven and not hell??? YOU DON'T...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.