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To: Boogieman
Ha! So your concept of heaven is one where Mary is just eternally working her way through an “inbox” that is overflowing, with requests that God (being actually omniscient and omnipotent) could just take care of with no effort at all. I think that is even sillier.

I'm not surprised that anyone would find their own silly straw man to be silly, since it's designed to be silly.

There's no reason at all to cast the situation in such a crass, sneering light. (One might as easily denigrate motherhood by portraying it as "an endless stream of dirty diapers"... which insinuates that there is nothing WITHIN or BEYOND that mundane chore, and such a comment says far more about the commenter than about the thing about which the comments were made.)

Anyway, you didn’t actually address my point, since my point was about omniscience, not omnipotence. In order to hear prayers from all over the world, especially silent prayers that are made inside a person’s head, requires omniscience, which is one of the attributes of a deity.

...and I suppose Acts 5:1-11 (St. Peter vs. Ananias and Sapphira) required that St. Peter be omniscient, since he knew that the two of them had lied about their property? If we're willing to admit that God enlightens those whom He wills in that case, why is it such a stretch that He could enlighten the Communion of Saints in Heaven to whatever prayers He wishes them to know?

Saying that there is no time in heaven doesn’t address that difficulty with the Catholic position.

It wasn't meant to do so. One of the more baffling prejudices I've found in some Evangelical Protestants (especially those of the anti-Catholic-Church type) is the idea that God somehow does not WANT anyone but Himself involved in the business of handling the needs of the faithful. You say that "God (being actually omniscient and omnipotent) could just take care of with no effort at all"; and that is certainly true; but isn't that also true of every need which exists? Why pray for ANYONE else, EVER, since God both knows the needs before we ask, and God has the power to deal with them with no effort? And yet, God plainly wants us to pray for one another... mainly because our two purposes for EXISTENCE are: (1) to be united to God, and (2) to be united to each other in the Communion of Saints. (Think of the two greatest commandments: love God, and love neighbor... and then ponder why these are commandments AT ALL. They exist to direct people toward that two-fold union.) The idea that God would somehow be passionately desirous of our prayers for each other while on earth, but would (for whatever reason) absolutely prohibit any such prayer by the Saints IN Heaven for those still on earth, is absurd.
126 posted on 03/24/2015 5:49:14 AM PDT by paladinan (Rule #1: There is a God. Rule #2: It isn't you.)
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To: paladinan

“(One might as easily denigrate motherhood by portraying it as “an endless stream of dirty diapers”... “

Let’s be clear here, what I am denigrating is a fairy tale being promoted by your church authorities. Nobody has been to heaven and returned to report to us what Mary is actually up to. The fairy tale is preposterous, verges on blasphemy, and deserves to be ridiculed.

“If we’re willing to admit that God enlightens those whom He wills in that case, why is it such a stretch that He could enlighten the Communion of Saints in Heaven to whatever prayers He wishes them to know?”

It’s an assumption for which we have no evidence. One simply doesn’t base a doctrine on the principle of “why not?” and then delude the faithful with a fantasy. Especially when such a fantasy contradicts the clear instructions of Jesus on how we are to pray.

“Why pray for ANYONE else, EVER, since God both knows the needs before we ask, and God has the power to deal with them with no effort?”

We do this because Christ instructed us to do this, unlike prayers to saints, Mary, etc.

“The idea that God would somehow be passionately desirous of our prayers for each other while on earth, but would (for whatever reason) absolutely prohibit any such prayer by the Saints IN Heaven for those still on earth, is absurd.”

Nobody is saying that is prohibited, there is just no evidence for it one way or the other. What we do know is prohibited is for the living to attempt to communicate with those who have died in the flesh. God condemned that practice quite clearly and spelled out consequences for those who engage in that grave sin, so it’s hardly something that should be encouraged by a church.


132 posted on 03/24/2015 6:33:16 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: paladinan
One of the more baffling prejudices I've found in some Evangelical Protestants (especially those of the anti-Catholic-Church type) is the idea that God somehow does not WANT anyone but Himself involved in the business of handling the needs of the faithful.

I find it baffling that you guys love to add things to scripture that do not exist...

So God divvies out his divine attributes amongst his saints and Jesus' mother...They chose who gets what and God does what??? How many saints do they have you guys praying to now??? They add more every day...

And how do you know God does this...Did he leave word in his Holy Scripture??? NOPE...Not a single word...In fact, Jesus contradicts any such nonsense...

How do you know any of these saints are actually in heaven and not hell??? YOU DON'T...

220 posted on 03/24/2015 12:30:38 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: paladinan
One of the more baffling prejudices I've found in some Evangelical Protestants (especially those of the anti-Catholic-Church type) is the idea that God somehow does not WANT anyone but Himself involved in the business of handling the needs of the faithful.

That's how He gets all the glory.

271 posted on 03/24/2015 5:39:25 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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