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To: Lonely Bull
I see no difference, in terms of "one mediator," between asking the "living" for their prayers and asking the "dead" for their prayers

Not quite. Actually you've wandered a little off the path of logic.

Mary is dead; in Heaven no doubt, but NOT omniscient; asking you friend to pray for you is reasonable; that person, properly, would be praying to GOD on your behalf; not to Mary.

See the difference?

Hoss

168 posted on 03/24/2015 1:22:45 PM PDT by HossB86 (Christ, and Him alone.)
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To: HossB86
I see no difference, in terms of "one mediator," between asking the "living" for their prayers and asking the "dead" for their prayers

Not quite. Actually you've wandered a little off the path of logic.

Please reread the entirety of my earlier post before you make any more accusations. I addressed the rest of what you wrote beforehand, in what I wrote about "the dead," and here I was especially careful to include "in terms of 'one mediator'" right in the middle in order to avoid misreadings.

Mary is dead; in Heaven no doubt, but NOT omniscient; asking you friend to pray for you is reasonable; that person, properly, would be praying to GOD on your behalf; not to Mary.

See the difference?

Not in terms of "mediatorship"--at least in terms of how the earlier conversation was going in terms of what was being called asking someone, such as Mary, "to pray for us" to God.

I'm not talking about something like thinking of or addressing Mary (or someone else along these lines) as anything like a deity in her own right, whatever form doing so may take in prayer or similar practices. (I'd even say that praying to someone else as if he or she were a deity would go even beyond the mediatorship question: in other words, the "recipient" would be even more than such a mediator would be.)

(I'm not Catholic, but one would probably also say that a saint in heaven doesn't need to be omniscient to hear requests to pray for us. I see such a discussion as on-topic within the greater context in this thread, but I'm not debating either way beyond pointing out, as I did earlier, that it's harder to find scriptural justification for asking for their prayers than to find clear justification for asking the living for their prayers.)

As I wrote earlier, I'd still say that there are stronger objections than using "one mediator" in this fashion.

231 posted on 03/24/2015 3:05:17 PM PDT by Lonely Bull
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To: HossB86
Mary is dead; in Heaven no doubt, but NOT omniscient; asking you friend to pray for you is reasonable; that person, properly, would be praying to GOD on your behalf; not to Mary.

I've sure got MY doubts!!

411 posted on 03/25/2015 5:32:18 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: HossB86

Wouldn’t God know the difference.

I do not want to sound like I am mocking anyone, but if you are praying with a true heart won’t God hear you even if it’s directed “down the hall?”

If we are talking Old Testament God, I would think not. But the New Testament God seems a little more forgiving.


535 posted on 03/25/2015 11:49:16 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (When you are inclined to to buy storage boxes, but contractor bags instead.)
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