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To: boatbums; knarf
I've got to generally keep off this thread, because of its being a Desecration Jamboree. but I will answer your question.

Mary who came into being without Original Sin, had the same spiritual status as Eve, who came into being without Original Sin.

Sh could have subsequently sinned of her own volition, just as Eve ended up doing.

But she chose not to sin. She chose to cooperate with God in all things.

But please don't ping me to any more of this brawl. IMVVHO, it doesn't require intellectual combat so much as exorcism.

223 posted on 03/27/2015 4:54:12 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Love rejoices not in evil, but rejoices in the truth." 1 Corinthians 13:6)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I've got to generally keep off this thread, because of its being a Desecration Jamboree. but I will answer your question.
Mary who came into being without Original Sin, had the same spiritual status as Eve, who came into being without Original Sin.

She could have subsequently sinned of her own volition, just as Eve ended up doing.

But she chose not to sin. She chose to cooperate with God in all things.

But please don't ping me to any more of this brawl. IMVVHO, it doesn't require intellectual combat so much as exorcism.

All blasphemy, save one, can be forgiven, but only with repentance (not with blindness and failure to recognize and confess sinful behavior).

Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house. He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied. Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Matthew, Catholic chapter twelve, Protestant verses twenty two to thirty seven,
Jude, Catholic chapter one (and only), in its entirety, as authorized, but not authored, by King James

230 posted on 03/27/2015 5:15:55 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Mary who came into being without Original Sin, had the same spiritual status as Eve, who came into being without Original Sin.

That's where the fable starts...

260 posted on 03/27/2015 8:10:26 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: knarf; Iscool
Mary who came into being without Original Sin, had the same spiritual status as Eve, who came into being without Original Sin. Sh could have subsequently sinned of her own volition, just as Eve ended up doing. But she chose not to sin. She chose to cooperate with God in all things.

Since I was requested to NOT ping the person "answering" my question, I won't. However, the response did NOT really answer my question...it was avoided.

My question was how Roman Catholics square the dogma of the Immaculate Conception - the idea that Mary was born without a sin nature and remained sinless throughout her life - if she could have refused the angel's announcement that she was to be the mother of the Messiah, God incarnate. IF Mary could have refused, then her supposed sinless conception would have been unnecessary and God would have wasted the exception He made for Mary alone, His plan would have to be revised, her replacement sought out by causing another girl baby to be born "immaculately" with the same heritage and bloodline to fulfill Messianic prophecies - a Plan B. In other words, God's foreknowledge and omniscience would have been foiled. I cannot see how anyone could believe this because it would prove God is NOT who He said He was and we would not be following the true God.

I think we should be able to discuss this topic without causing some to hyperventilate over it. That it was Catholic Freepers who initiated the "rape" rabbit hole seems to have been missed. I know I certainly don't and wouldn't even think of that as the reason why Mary was not asked her permission but instead was announced to her of God's plan. There is no reason in the first place for the mother of the incarnate God to be sinless, only that she was a virgin and of the lineage of David. God knew from before the world began that this would be how the salvation of mankind would proceed. God doesn't make mistakes.

408 posted on 03/27/2015 2:44:02 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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