Posted on 03/28/2015 11:13:51 AM PDT by marshmallow
All the “do’s” you list could be done in your head. Is there anything that Jesus asked his followers to do in the physical world, such as breaking bread together or going to church?
By the way, I don’t understand the dominos reference.
Nothing of any consequence. The real consequence is what He has done for us. Re-visit the remarks by WVKayaker and Rom. 8. The hermeneutic employed by Rome places great emphasis on Matt, Mark, Luke and John (commonly & mistakenly called the "Gospels"). But, the actual "gospel" for us Gentiles begins at the cross (Eph2). Check it out. Much of what Jesus taught is the Jewish Law. And, your gang won't do that...such as tear out an offending eye. Why don't you "do" that?
"By the way, I don’t understand the dominos reference."
Just me being smart-alecky. You know, the Romanist priests say stuff in Latin which sounds like, "(sing this at a higher pitch) I can play dominos better than you (now drop a couple notes down and sing) can." Sounds like Latin...sort of. I know...not funny.
But, the real point is that absolution, confession, and most of the other traditions of Romanism are not Scriptural. These traditions occupy the "do" that Catholics think of when they think of "doing" Christianity. Just as there was nothing for the thief on the cross to "do" to be fully rescued, there are no "requirements" left which must be fulfilled for a person to be rescued today.
I'm curious about the use of the word "begin" in that context. Even without referring to the "Gospels" it would seem that for Paul, the good news begins in the incarnation and culminates in the resurrection. Hence:
Phil 2:7-8: but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form, 8 he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death— even death on a cross.
2 Corinthians 8:9: For you know the generous act of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that by his poverty you might become rich.
Romans 8:3-4 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and to deal with sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Galatians 4:4-6 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 in order to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as children. 6 And because you are children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
By the way, I read Ephesians 2 and didn't see anything that contradicts the passages included above. Also I did find this:
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Which would seem to suggest some "works" to do.
Now I get the dominoes reference Yes I should have figured that out. Actually I rather like gregorian chant because I find it quite beautifulo and moving, even if it were not also liturgical.
When were you, as a Gentile, brought near? Altogether now...at the Cross, when the blood flowed.
This error sets many reader upon a trail they do not belong...they are reading someone else's mail. Just as you likely do not believe the Prophet Isaiah is writing to a Gentile, what made you think Matthew was writing to a Gentile? Paul says, "I am writing to Gentile believers as the apostle sent to the Gentiles." Well, now, that really is to us. Read from there on BEFORE you look back. Then go re-read the entire Book with Gentile eyes looking over the shoulders of the First Group...the Jews.
Phil 2:7-8: but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form, 8 he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death— even death on a cross.
2 Corinthians 8:9: For you know the generous act of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that by his poverty you might become rich.
Romans 8:3-4 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and to deal with sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Galatians 4:4-6 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 in order to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as children. 6 And because you are children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
I’m pretty much done here. Jesus would have to be incarnated in order to provide solutions to our two most important problems: 1. our evil (which His sacrifice paid for vicariously). 2. our lack of righteousness (which His holy life covered us with). These solutions leave nothing left to “do” from a biblicist’s point of view.
I think you have made your point that you believe Jesus commands believing Gentiles to “do” things far beyond what I find in the Scriptures. Well, then, whatever you do, don’t become an astronaut...unless you can take with you the entourage that is required to fulfill your “do” list.
From that I have become comfortable that in Paul's view the good news starts with the incarnation and that he did not think the incarnation was simply necessary to get to Jesus's holy life and then to the cross, but that the incarnation itself is a "generous act of our Lord Jesus Christ", "that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor," and that generous act in which Jesus "emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness" is good news indeed.
Further, I learned that specifically within Paul's exhortations to the gentiles I can find support for my belief that a full faith which is a gift of God's grace is not just in the mind but in the soul and the body too, "For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." This helped me to understand Paul more squarely within the tradition laid out in Mark "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength (ischus)."
Actually, that too is part of the Law of Moses...if you should be so inclined to look. But, please, if you do, and come to settle on this being "Christian Living 101", then do not, under any circumstance, fail to include Matt. 5:48 in your efforts to follow the requirements...and let us know when you are satisfied with your success. Regards.
That's why I quoted it. It's interesting that it's so consistent with what Paul says about us being "created in Christ Jesus to do good works". But maybe Paul wasn't talking about "Biblical Christianity?"
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness can come through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by something you did in Law or by hearing with faith?
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written 'cursed is everyone who does not abide by ALL THE THINGS WRITTEN in the Book of the LAW to PERFORM THEM.'
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith
And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that HE IS UNDER OBLIGATION TO KEEP the WHOLE LAW
Signed, Paul
If your eye offends...tear it out. Well?
This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.
Signed, Jesus
How do you interpret that in light of this?
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
The “works” that Paul refers to are those things which the astronaut gone for 20 years could easily do. But, apparently, not if he wants to be a good little catholic boy. Rome has a long “to do” list for anyone who wishes to stay in “good standing”.
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