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To: Steelfish
The authority was to Peter and his successors. This is Petrine authority.

So what are you , a propaganda machine? Do you think parroted these vain assertions makes them true, though it may comfort you?

It was the Church that authenticated the canonical texts. If you doubt Petrine authority, then you must also for sure have doubts on whether the canonical books chose by the Church are indeed the true written word of God.

What kind of absurd logic is that? Besides the fact that it took Rome over 1400 years to provide an infallible, indisputable canon, do you realize where this historical magisterium =veracity logic takes you? To requiring 1st century souls to submit to those unto whom "were committed the oracles of God." (Romans 3:2) "Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." (Romans 9:4-5; cf (Gn. 12:2,3; 17:4,7,8; Ex. 19:5; Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Ps, 11:4,9; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; Jer. 7:23)

Instead, the church actually began in dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, (Mt. 23:2) who were the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture. And followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected, and whom the Messiah reproved them Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)

Unlike your basis for assurance of Truth.

You can’t have it both ways.

Indeed you cannot. Either be consistent with your historical magisterium logic and remain deceived or be like the NT church and make Scriptural substantiation your supreme authority and basis for discernment of Truth. Your choice and eternity.

67 posted on 03/28/2015 10:41:50 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212

You position logically leads to multiple truths since by your lights there is no ONE visible Church. This is an absurdity brought on with the curse of the Reformation. You cannot possibly deny that for ELEVEN centuries the Catholic Church assembled, interpreted and taught the canonical texts through the prism of scared scriptural, the received oral tradition and liturgy. That’s an irrefutable truth. Even Protestant scholars admit to this.

You say for 1400 years the Church failed to provide an indisputable cannon? From where on earth did you fetch this piece of historical nonsense?

It was not until the Synod of Rome (382) and the Councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397) that we find a definitive list of canonical books being drawn up, and each of these Councils acknowledged the very same list of books. These were ALL Councils of the ONE Church. From this point on, there is in practice no dispute about the canon of the Bible and its universal interpretation given by the Church. The only exception being the so-called Protestant Reformers, who entered upon the scene in 1517, an unbelievable 11 centuries later.

Thus the early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, a Protestant, writes, “[W]here in practice was [the] apostolic testimony or tradition to be found? . . . The most obvious answer was that the apostles had committed it orally to the Church, where it had been handed down from generation to generation. . . . Unlike the alleged secret tradition of the Gnostics, it was entirely public and open, having been entrusted by the apostles to their successors, and by these in turn to those who followed them, and was visible in the Church for all who cared to look for it” (Early Christian Doctrines, 37).

But you play “internet theologian” as do Bible Christians by dipping into the shallow end of the theological pool and fishing out a quote from here and there. This is the stuff of neophytes untutored on scripture, context, and history.

You keep again and again avoiding the tough questions on why scores of eminent Protestant theologians have joined a constellation of Catholic scholars and theologian in proclaiming both historically and scripturally that it is the Catholic Church (not some amorphous group) that Christ selected to proclaim His ONE true teaching. You cannot assail the unassailable i.e. the faith and interpretation of the early Church Fathers as to the teachings of the Church. You blithely ignore the writings of many of them, some whom were contemporaries of the Evangelist John. You gloss over the unwritten Word of God (Jn: 21:25) which ONLY the Church carried forward. There was no other Church at the time.

At the end of the day, as it has been for over 2000 years, there is ONE Church and the rest is all drivel from Billy Graham to David Koresh and the Moonies and the Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witness and whatever any corner street Foursquare Church pastor purports to say about Scripture.

No wonder Protestantism has been reduced to a Saturday Night caricature from the likes of TD Jakes to Joel Osteen.


68 posted on 03/28/2015 11:34:23 PM PDT by Steelfish
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